Brexit Betrayal

uk
brexit

#524

I doubt you’d see a third.

Might see a second Scottish Independence vote too.


#525

Apostasy has its price.


#526

There was leave or stay, and leave voters were not in agreement on what leaving might look like in real terms, imo.

Once you start ask what leaving might look like, you get a variety of different answers. What the leave campaign said/promised leave would look like hasn’t appeared and isn’t possible.

Ah, but what was the leave campaign promising? Certainly not a hard no-deal Brexit. They were campaigning against a no-deal Brexit.

Do you really think that’s what leave voters voted for? All of them? Most of them? 52 to 48, how many would you need to lose for remain to have won? Not many.

No UK referendum is going to be legally binding. Parliament makes law, not the majority population. The mob doesn’t rule, for better or worse.

But if giving MP’s a second referendum where the majority votes to stay gives them sufficient political cover to feel safe enough to vote to stay, so be it.


#527

I find it amazing how politicians circumvent the will of the people. Applies to the UK as well as the US.

Recently we have a movement to circumvent the electoral college by pledging the electoral votes to the popular vote winner circumventing the will of the people as well as the constitution.


#528

You forget, May is a remainer. As are the majority of Tory MP’s, and the majority of Labour MP’s and Lib Dem MP’s.

No deal is now looking like a non-starter. I think us remain voters have won this particular battle, but we shall see.


#529

The entire US political system is designed to circumvent the “will of the people”, aka the mob.

Be careful what you wish for.


#530

The political system was build with a fail safe, the electoral college to prevent the tyranny of the majority (large population centers) which is being circumvented today.

National Vote referendum passed in 11 states.


#531

Labour thought it a good idea to make their party leadership process more Democratic. Corbyn is the result.

As I said, be careful what you wish for. Mobs and Demagogues.


#532

So you call subverting democracy winning? You lost way back in June 2016 but refused to accept it. Absolutely, be careful what you wish for, because that would be a dictatorship.

There is only one version of leave. You and all the other remaintards confuse trade deal with leaving. The two are independent. Why not negotiate a trade deal once we’re out?


#533

I haven’t forgot, I just have a different opinion than you wrt how this plays out


#534

Once again: It was a non-binding referendum. Leave voters keep framing it as if it was an election that is being over-turned. It wasn’t and isn’t.

There are many different versions of leave. Farage et al were arguing in favor of a Swiss or Norway style deal where we’d retain free trade while not being an EU member, though both those countries agreed to free movement in exchange.

We can absolutely negotiate a trade deal with the EU once we’ve left the EU. Canada only took 7 years to negotiate their deal, though it was far far simpler than any deal we’d be after (doesn’t include services provisions) and there was no bad blood to get in the way.

I figure it would take around a decade+ to get a trade deal in place with the EU. Economically we’d probably be looking at a lost decade ala-Japan as well. At best.


#535

Mark Carney is smarter than a lot of people give him the credit for.


#536

In the Daily Rag today (in the barbers) it seems that half the cabinet have threatened to resign in the event of a no-deal.

…I wonder if we would miss them!


#537

…and there were those who knew which way they were voting before the pissing contest began.


#538

Interesting to see you amongst your countrymen.

On the wrong side of history on your side of the pond too.

No surprise.


#539

So we need to keep open borders with most of the third world trying to get in here so you can swan in and out of Spain when you please ? I was right about your age group, me me me me !!
I’m sure following a proper BREXIT Spain will not want to lose it’s long term income from us Brits and will likely be very accommodating for holders of a British passport.


#540

The EU doesn’t control our immigration policy towards non-EU citizens or our refugee policies. You know that, right?

Doesn’t look like a hard Brexit is ever going to happen now, but we’ll see. I would not rely on the goodwill of EU states after one though, residency in a foreign country has lots of complications.


#541

No, it was a once in a lifetime true democratic vote, far more important than an election.

Why are you so hung up about a trade deal? We buy shed loads more from the EU than they do from us. We are BMW’s biggest customer. You don’t seem to understand simple business. They should be throwing themselves at us, grovelling to sell to us. We are the ones with the money, so why do you think we should be begging? There is the rest of the world to trade with. The EU is only a small part. We will have the whole US market free from EU tariffs. What is so bad about that?

Balance_by_countries_v2

I tell you why. Because the whole leave process is run by inept remainers who have the business sense of a newt. There is also their refusal to accept the democratic decision of the people and do their best to overturn that decision. On the other hand, the EU has to be seen to punish us. There is no way they could give us a decent deal, in case other countries get any ideas about leaving. That is why we should only negotiate after we have left.

7 years to get a trade deal?! Right. Look, if the EU is slow or unwilling, so be it. They can sod off. Trump has pen over paper right now and is waiting for us.

Is trade and the economy your only concerns? Does it mean nothing to you that we will be a free sovereign nation once again, free to make our own laws? Obviously not. Be very careful, because you are wishing against democracy and freedom and you know where that leads.

I made the economic argument to you above because even your top hand doesn’t stack up, but to me and many others, economy is secondary. Perhaps we should have let Hitler invaded, because fighting Germany certainly wasn’t good for the economy.


#542

You do know that the Millions already floating around Europe who have asylum become eligible to apply for EU passport in 6 or so years ? Of course there are the many thousands who already have fake ones and then there are also the millions of French muslims of African origins who are are also free to roam and then there are Europe’s Romany communities who are also free to roam. All that ends when you need a British passport or need to meet strict immigration rules which are adhered to.
We also need to work on ditching that bullshit Marrakesh Agreement next too. That will give all you do gooders something else to whine about.

EDIT: How long before Albania …Turkey …Serbia in EU… EU will be desperate for the cash.


#543

ME shitholes and Africa too. More basket cases to keep the Euro down and us to pay for them all! Well, what’s the problem, it’s not like we’re not used to it.