Why Socialism and Communism Are the Same

Amazing that the wingers are defending big pharma when even trump has pledged to bring down drug prices even though he backed away from that promise…too.

Right, we cannot analyze the medical bankruptcy problem ourselves all we can do is parrot what so-called reputable sources tell us. :grimacing:

This isn’t to say medical debt doesn’t contribute to bankruptcy but to point out that contrary to media fed hysteria medical costs can be the unexpected expense that tips the scale into bankruptcy. Of course our crackerjack investigative media is “incurious” about anything that would upset the passion play of cruel healthcare providers ruthlessly driving sick innocents into bankruptcy.

Here is the state of net worth in the US based on US census data.

The median net worth of all Americans is $80,039. The median net worth excluding equity is $25,116 – which means equity is 68.62% of total net worth.

https://wallethacks.com/average-net-worth-by-age-americans/

Keep in mind this is median net worth meaning 50% of households including those with negative net worth have less than $25K available for an unexpected expense. Primary residences, equity, are typically not liquidated in bankruptcy.

Typical hospital costs for a heart attack are around $38K. With a negative net worth it’s easy to see why people choose bankruptcy.

Today’s insulin is a biologic, much more costly and difficult to manufacture than traditional insulin. Plus demand is at historic highs thanks to an aging population. That’s not to justify all of the price increases but it exposes the claim of no reason for the increased cost. :roll_eyes:

As usual you show you know fuck all about the subject. You really think people put a cell phone before meds they need.

Spend some actual with these individuals and you will find that the vast majority are hardworking people who no matter how frugally they live cannot afford their needed meds.

Now I wait for TWR to tell us how he was worked for a pharmaceutical company and knows those who cant afford meds are lazy welfare dependent losers who should have made better choices.

Perhaps if more than just 3 companies controlled 90% of all insulin supplies the price would not be as high.

I understand it is a biologic and all the complexity that goes with it but the three major companies could reduce the cost significantly and still make tens of millions of dollars in profits.

So, now there is a reason why insulin prices have increased. :wink:

Where is the evidence that 4 or more manufacturers would lower costs? More manufacturers wouldn’t lower the cost of production. With an aging population the demand will only increase.

I note the absence of any attempt to rebut the explanation of why the medical costs as the leading cause of bankruptcy is a myth. The silence is understandable.

Not at all just that I am working and funnily enough I work with major pharma on the clinical side. Unlike many on this forum I am not a boomer who sucks on the teat of government while at the same time bitching about welfare etc . Etc.

Hmm… it’s unexpected that someone employed by a major pharmaceutical company wouldn’t know why the price of insulin has doubled. :wink:

Oh ok, you can’t defend your previous claims so you resort to insulting boomers.

After 40+ years of forced contributions plus short pay from employers forced to do the same it’s understandable why the greedy old boomers want to collect. We ought to privatize the major entitlement programs over time, not pull the rug out from under current recipients.

There you go again just blowing smoke out of your ass.

My family has been in pharmacy and medicine now for four generations and I’ve been “one of those people”.

My own personal out of pocket medical expenses over the last 9 years exceeded 100k as well.

96-98% of Americans now own a cell phone.

70% of Americans are making payments on a car that is less than 5yrs old.

65% of Americans are making payments on a home they own, nearly half of which are upside down on their mortgages, around 7 million at any given time approaching 90 days behind on a mortgage.

It isn’t the poor that are drowning in medical debt, they get theirs covered for free through programs like medicaid.

The elderly aren’t either since they have Meidicare and/or Medicaid.

The people going bankrupt for the most part are average middle class Americans who live their life on credit cards and right on the edge from month to month just trying to keep up with their minimum payments.

They have no emergency funds available to cover even a 500.00 emergency so a few weeks off of work due to a serious illness or injury puts them in a hole they can’t claw their way back out of except through bankruptcy.

Now go be an ass to someone else.

Continuing to make an Ass of yourself by Assuming.

You don’t seem to be at all familiar with ROI.

If you have to spend hundreds of billions to make millions no company is going to take that risk.

The ROI for the entire pharmaceutical industry only averages about 14%.

Now there is a surprise. Is there any business that you are not involved in ?

I don’t believe a word of it. Just like others are perfectly entitled not to believe me. You have been a paramedic, a pilot, a soldier, law enforcement officer, firearms instructor. Now we are expected to believe you have been involved in pharmaceuticals. Its fortunate how your job experience always exactly matches the topic being discussed.

the vast majority of Americans could not afford $100,000 out of pocket medical costs over a 9 year period. And that is not because they live on credit card or make stupid Financial decisions.

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Well I am sure you have been an investment banker, entrepreneur, CFO, accountant etc. so we all have to bow to your experience. I certainly do

I never said I was employed by a major pharmaceutical company I work with them. Sorry if my posts do not go into the detail you wanted. You made some valid points but regardless I still contend pharma companies are screwing the American people. All other first world nations have sensible price controls in place. So pharma fucks over the American consumer.

There is a way for these companies to make profits and for consumers to get the meds they need at an affordable price.

I don’t give a shit what you believe. I grew up in a pharmacy we owned for almost a hundred years before losing it in 89.

Currently there are three doc’s three pharmacists and five nurses and paramedics in the family.

My dad remained a practicing Pharmacist and Pharm D specializing in diabetes management until two weeks before he died.

I’ve had near unlimited opportunities for education and experience in my life and I took advantage of every one of them as opposed to whining losers like yourself that expect the world to be handed to them on a silver platter irrespective of any effort put forth by yourself.

You attack me personally because you can’t dispute the facts.

You are absolutely right and couldn’t agree more! It’s this argument to finding a solution to advocate for reducing pricing that one has to reduce to the most simplest equations to look at the cause. I can’t speak for Europe because their system is more based on the socialist model, but in a free market system like ours the way to bring prices down is for allowing fair competition. The reason why it hasn’t happened in America is because the Pharma companies enjoy a monopoly and by doing so they eliminated choice, while Politicians are profiting handsomely through their lobbying efforts. Eliminate the big monied interests in politics, as well as implement a solution to prevent vulture capitalism to give Pharma a decided advantage on pricing and this problem would go away in a hurry.

Are we actually finding more common ground?

I am not an unreasonable person, and it’s apparent you are an intelligent one, so it’s what I try to appeal to most when debating anyone. Stay with your current discourse as this is the side of you that I like.

Yes it’s possible to find common ground, and credit to you for trying. :grinning:

We’re paying through our noses to subsidize the countries that have price controls.

I’m a big fan of as little regulation as possible but we need a prescription drug bill that requires manufacturers to sell their wares for the same price in the US as they are being paid abroad.

Do something fair like average pricing where you take the average price paid for a given drug in fifteen other industrialized nations and fix that as the wholesale price for the US as well.

Let those other countries start paying the true cost of medications instead of the US consumer toting the bill for them.

So in other words, allow the free market mechanisms to work in order so that self correction can take place?

I see the need for averaging pricing and tariffs is a start until the bigger problem of the lobbying cartel is addressed. That to me more than anything has to be addressed. It is the root cause to many other problems that prohibits Government functioning to serve to half of its expectations of providing to the people.

Well you really have to understand WHY Americans pay more than the rest of the world.

Price fixing by other nations is a big part of it but Pharmaceutical liability is as well.

A couple of legislative acts would solve it entirely.

Average pricing/true pricing for all countries would be a big part of it.

Another would be to eliminate liabiity for the manufacturers as long as they pass the FDA approval process and no fraud can be found.

This would not provide immunity for negligence such as a bad batch getting out.

They spend billions getting a drug to market following very strict protocols but then they have to set hundreds of billions aside in ready cash in expectation of future lawsuits.

Do both and you could probably cut the cost of most drugs marketed in the US by well over half.

Now as part of it there should absolutely be criminal penalties for anyone we could prove was participating in the fraud along with staggering civil penalties along with the criminal restitution and fines.