Who will democrats blame when Trump wins again in 2020?

The Dems have one shot- especially as the next military adventure in the ME begins - Tulsi Gabbard.

Bernie is like a crazy homeless guy railing about ‘miyonahs and biyonaihs’ and primarily appeals to young people frustrated that they have to be able to offer something to a company or society in order to get a decent job, and/or took out way too many stupid loans for a useless major. He’s not electable.

No one outside of Mn. knows who ‘Amy’ is- or cares.

Biden is too same ol’ same ol’ same ol’ to win the general from a Prez with a great economy - and he’s even older than bad orange man.

Warren is viewed by the hard left as too capitalist, and by the rest as too socialist, and by everyone but pink haired fatties as too shrill.

Mayor Pete is gay - America is not quite evolved to the point of being able to handle that. Besides his name looks too much like Buttsiege.

Yang- interesting but the whipped cream ‘moneyshot’ video removes all gravitas.

Who am I leaving out- oh yeah

Booker, Steyer, Bllomberg, Bennet, Steyer, Williamson, Patrick- all filed under ‘Who?’

Gabbard has looks, she’s a vet, she’s anti war, and is hated by enough prog SJW’s that she could really appeal to the middle.

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National Debt By President

It’s a trend started long before Trump and Obama. Note the flattest part of the curve is under Clinton’s watch.

What’s interesting is to consider the economic climate during these periods.

Clinton of course had an excellent economy, so one would expect revenues to be high and debt to get paid down.

Bush tax cuts caused revenues to drop so debt expectedly went up. Unfortunately the billionaire/corporate welfare trickle-down theory proved false and the economy nose-dived at the end of his tenure, even with outlandish military spending.

Obama’s tenure was a mixed bag, the first few years had economic trends continuing in the downward direction from the Bush era, then turning the corner around 2010 for 22 consecutive quarters of economic growth. One would expect to see the same inverse inflection in the debt curve, but extension of the Bush-era tax cuts kept that from happening.

In Trumps case we see him inherit a well-running economy, but additional tax cuts and corporate/billionaire welfare increased the rate-of-increase of debt accumulation significantly.

Before you lose your shit here’s a good apolitical summary of the Obama-era turnaround with some good explanations of where the staggering debt came from.

How has the Iraq War (of 2003) and any outcome affected the US ?

Not so much, and MPO is that the real squeeze on debt will not start until DT wins his second term. The reason being that there will be some loud squealing.

What DT has done is improve the balance of payments, the current-account which is the measure of value of exported goods vs the value of imported goods. Superficially this might seem a good thing, in practice it is creating a global US$ liquidity squeeze. We will have to wait and see how that plays out.

Aside from spending a trillion dollars in futile nation-building, ushering in total control of government for a couple of years by Democrats, Obama for eight years and turning the Republican party into a bunch of aimless flakes, not much

I know this is difficult but try and FOCUS in CONGRSS/Both parties including the democrats who authorize all spending. A BIG part is the increase in Healthcare/medicaid spending BECAUSE of the ACA.

President can only rubber stamp what the IDIOTS in congress pass. To veto it would allow people like yourself to BITCH about what an evil person Trump is.

It’s called damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

Now you can se my outrage especially t votes who continually re-elect stupid people.

Voting Trump 2020 is gonna be awesome! No wall, war, massive amounts of refugee influxes from the Middle East and South America, tax cuts for increasingly tyrannical technocrats, and Israel first!

Yes and regardless the left will welcome the open border invaders with open arms and demand taxpayers foot the bill.

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I’m quite sure it will be Putins fault again. They may throw in some payoffs from xi for good measure but it’s always the Russians!

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I assume that you are not referring to Iraq with that statement.

My perception is that the UK and US governments colluded to manufacture propaganda in support of an invasion. They then invaded Iraq, smashed the army, local government, an amount of infrastructure, dismantled the police … and then simply left. Into the vacuum arose Da’esh (ISIS or any other name you care to bestow) precipitating a huge refugee movement of which there has been much writing in this forum. In a letter to my MP more than a year ago I asserted exactly that.

I am now wondering whether the whole Da’esh situation was the intended outcome.

A bit off topic, I know, so let’s keep further discussion to the local US effects. :+1:

I disagree and that is totally false. GDP was at an all time low when Obama took office and the growth rate was barely reaching over 1% under Obama’s entire 8 years as president. In fact the GDP was at 1.6 percent in his final year in office. The FED rates were also at zero and speculation was cheap! Now the GDP is well over 2% and soon will be at 3% with a steady growth rate well over 2% each quarter that Trump took office. Also wage growth was stagnant under Obama but continues to expand under Trump due to his policies! So I don’t know what you are smoking by suggesting Trump inherited a healthy economy because that is patently incorrect.

I don’t know why you anti Trumpers refuse to give credit where it is due but it’s obvious by ignoring the fact that Obama created more debt than any US presidents combined in history! The fact you you are being obtuse and intellectually dishonest by ignoring that inconvenient fact is telling as is why I asked you why you were so partisan in your original response! Clearly you are.

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Don’t forget that the fed bankers crapped their pants in fear of inflation that never materialized and started raising rates shortly after he took office with the specific goal in mind of retarding growth.

The fed’s have apparently decided to follow the Euro model and prevent growth from reaching or surpassing 3%.

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Some just love to obfuscate the facts in order to feed their confirmation bias which is pretty obvious from some here on this thread.

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I’m beginning to think Zoo is a kid who has just been fed so much BS in school he doesn’t know which way is up but may actually be starting to see for himself.

Time will tell.

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Well if that is the case then I encourage the debate as an opportunity to teach. They are after all the future leaders of our country.

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See our exchange from tonight in the gun thread.

We smashed them in 6 months. If we’d simply left, it would have been a much less expensive disaster for the GOP. Bush would have ruined them anyway, though - he was president Disastro.

I’m pretty sure that they thought that they could install a puppet, Chalabi, to run things and they got scammed. I agree, the whole rationale for the war (WMDs etc) didn’t make any sense and was flagrant propaganda. I don’t think that these guys were smart enough to think far enough ahead to a refugee movement.

The biggest and most egregious thing that was done to assure US occupation would last more than a year not to mention the many lives needlessly lost is when the asshole Bremmer decided to disband the Iraqi military! That to me was the most catastrophic thing ever done during the beginning stages of US occupation, especially considering they were willing to do whatever US command told them to do already after the kinetic phase was near complete.

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Actually it needed a complete purge of Saddam Loyalists.

Patton kept a lot of the Nazi’s working in civilian infrastructure positions but they almost immediately and smartly disbanded the Nazi Army.

A lot of mistakes were made but the biggest was trying to do it on the cheap.

In doing so we didn’t send half enough troops to actually secure Iraq’s borders and that is how the foreign insurgency was so successful.

People seem to forget there were essentially three civil wars going on there for five years.

The Foreign insurgency targeting all American and Iraqis that weren’t Saddam loyalists.

The foreign Insurgency sponsored by Iran tageting all allied troops and non Shia Iraqis.

The Saddam loyalists from the fetayeen Saddam and IRG along with Saddam’s other paramilitary groups that had long prepared an insurgency campaign knowing the Iraqi army was no match for the US and coalition forces.

It seems our intel guys and gas absolutely missed the boat on both the Saddam loyalists fading away from the battlefield during the invasion returning home to fight, and the foreign insurgency sponsored mainly, almost exclusively in fact by Iran.

Of course the failure to send out troops in porperly equipped for modern urban warfare was a huge screwup but… . That’s another thread.

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And she’s a great one, I’ve been supporting her since day one. But, the DNC and the rest of the Democratic Party establishment DO NOT LIKE HER, nor does the liberal leaning media. So I’m not hopeful.