The Literary Corner and Philosophers Thread 📙 📖

Humans fight a holy war against thinking machines in Dune

This war is called the “Butlerian Jihad”

Why?

The war is named after a real 19th century English author:

Samuel Butler

Butler issued prophetic warnings against technology in a 1872 novel

His disturbing insights


1/ A Dune prequel tells us that in the future

Humans let “efficient machines” execute almost all “everyday tasks”

Machines meant to save labor and time start eroding our humanity:

“Gradually, humans ceased to think, or dream…or truly live”

The danger of outsourcing life?


2/ Samuel Butler who obsessed with a question: “What sort of creature” will follow us as the ruler of Earth? Life went from minerals to plants to animals - who says we’re the ultimate culmination of this process? No rational basis to saying “animal life is the end of all things”


3/ In 1863, Butler saw machines surpassing us in productivity:

"The machine is brisk and active, when the man is weary

It is clear-headed and collected, when the man is stupid and dull

It needs no slumber, when man must sleep or drop; ever at its post, ever ready for work"


4/ Butler saw that our daily lives would get fused with machines

He saw the metaverse coming:

“How many men at this hour are living in a state of bondage to the machines?”

Today we need everything artificially modified: from the air in our rooms to the images entering our eyes


5/ Perhaps machines can’t be supreme over humans as they can’t adapt on the fly?

But even animals aren’t infinitely adaptable:

“For how many emergencies is an oyster adapted? For as many as are likely to happen to it, and no more. So are the machines; and so is man himself”


6/ Withdrawing tech of the last 200 years wont just take us back to 1823

An unprecedent war will break out over EVERYTHING:

• Energy
• Food
• Water
• Space

The world will be much worse than it was in 1823 because of all the technological crutches we need to survive today

7/ Human dependence will only get worse

Machines will only get more powerful

The best time to declare a Butlerian Jihad was 1872

The second best time is now

Today screens give children fake recreations

Porn makes real intimacy less likely by flooding us with the artificial



8/ Some argue machines can’t ever be conscious but perhaps the psyche itself is mechanistic at the lowest level? Butler wonders if the experiences that we feel to be “purely spiritual” are just the end results of an “infinite series of levers” which are tiny & beyond detection


9/ As the real world slips from our hands

We find solace in fake worlds, from video games to theme parks

When humans win the Butlerian Jihad in Dune

They make a strict commandment:

“Thou shalt not disfigure the soul”

This is what’s at stake: the destiny of our soul


10/ Butler’s final call:

“A war to the death should be instantly proclaimed. Every machine should be destroyed by the well-wisher of his species. Let there be no exceptions made.”

Butler throws cold water on our sleepwalking faces

We must wake up to the world we’re creating

Check out:

“Butlerian Jihad - A Reading list”

9 insightful books on the dynamic between humans and technology

Titles include:

  1. Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television
  2. The Technological Society
  3. Technics and Civilization

A link to more reading

This is rather heavy and rather depressing to contemplate. Which is why nature and getting out in it is the greatest joy man can access to recharge. Go swim in the cold river in the Himalaya Mountains! Can a robot experience that?

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Still the trajectory that Samuel Butler articulates in the 1800’s is eerily coming true in 2023 and beyond. Some suggested we live in a matrix although I don’t subscribe to that reality, the pervasiveness of technology and machine is one that is creeping slowly up so slightly as we as humans become more dependent with our eyes and our brains occupied by such devices. Scary to think what the future will be like as our interactions with AI is a continued evolution towards either our doom or a revolution to rid ourselves of machines.

It is unavoidable of our interactions with tech, but the threat of less thinking humans that rely more on technology is devolving our species. The more we move away from the natural world the less human we become. War is certainly going to destroy our natural environment we interact with.

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“Prayer is not an old woman’s amusement. Properly understood and applied, it is the most potent instrument of action.” {mahatma gandhi}

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Indeed it is! The word “prayer” is often mistaken for a colloquial term associated with triggering effect. However when put into the same context as meditation then those past references is suddenly dissipated with the past and brings understanding to the present, the moment. "Being in the moment’

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In the lens of history, there is literary value of what is being articulated in this OP piece. Cato and Caesar’s rivalry destroyed an entire empire and the reasons provided are both fascinating and insightful from a historical perspective.

Josiah Osgood, a professor of classics at Georgetown University, in his recent book Uncommon Wrath: How Caesar and Cato’s Deadly Rivalry Destroyed the Roman Republic, comes down on the side of human ambition as the great moving force in history. He illustrates his position with Julius Caesar (100-44 B.C.) and Marcus Porcius Cato (95-46 B.C.). Caesar was possibly the most ambitious man ever to walk the earth, and his talents—as a soldier, a politician, a writer—were in every way commensurate with that ambition. If Cato was ambitious, it was not for himself but for the Roman Republic, whose greatest enemy he thought, rightly, was Julius Caesar. Cato may even be said to have been an enemy of ambition per se. Caesar, for his part, viewed Cato as a persistent roadblock on his clearly marked path to preeminence in Rome.

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Who do you think is the modern day Cato and Caesar?

That is hard to say because I don’t think Trump nor Biden are as smart as Cato was or as ruthless as Caesar.

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C.S. Lewis almost died in the trench warfare of WW-I

Became best friends with Tolkien

Sold 100 million books

On the cusp of WW-II, he gave an iconic lecture at Oxford University (1939)

His question:

Does beauty matter when bombs start falling?

THIS is his profound answer


1/ The permanent human situation is endless strife, chaos and pain

C.S. Lewis:

“Human life has always been lived on the edge of a precipice. Human culture has always had to exist under the shadow of something infinitely more important than itself”

Yet culture breaks out


2/ If we waited for peace to create art the first cave painting would still not be made

Always some “imminent danger” looking more important than culture

Lewis: “If men had postponed the search for knowledge and beauty until they were secure, the search would never have begun”


3/ Insect life v/s Human Life

CS Lewis:

“The insects have chosen a different line: they have sought first the material welfare and security of the hive, and presumably they have their reward. Men are different”

We demand not just mere continuity but variety, growth, adventure



4/ C.S. Lewis on why humans are a truly unique species:

“Men propound mathematical theorems in beleaguered cities, conduct metaphysical arguments in condemned cells, make jokes on scaffolds, and comb their hair at Thermopylae. This is not panache; it is our nature.”


5/ Right on the “front line,” soldiers don’t talk of the “allied cause” or the “progress of the campaign”

They’re instead concerned with stories, myths, fateful open-ended questions

They desire “aesthetic satisfactions”

If they wont “read good books” they will "read bad ones”


6/ CS Lewis on good ideas:

“Good philosophy must exist, if for no other reason, because bad philosophy needs to be answered. The cool intellect must work not only against cool intellect on the other side, but against the muddy heathen mysticisms which deny intellect altogether”


8/ C.S. Lewis on why we must study the past:

“Not that the past has any magic about it, but because we cannot study the future, and yet need something to set against the present, to remind us that the basic assumptions have been quite different in different periods”



9/ Past as immunity from new-age BS:

“A man who has lived in many places is not likely to be deceived by the local errors of his village; the scholar has lived in many times and is therefore…immune from the great cataract of nonsense that pours from the press of his own age.”


10/ Don’t wait for spare time to know what you want to know and to chase what you want to chase

C.S. Lewis: “The only people who achieve much are those who want knowledge so badly that they seek it while the conditions are still unfavorable. Favorable conditions never come.”


C.S. Lewis was a brilliant thinker Always rewarding to read I’ve been reading his classic books along with his obscure lectures, and collecting the insights in one place: https://memod.com/jashdholani/boards/the-best-ideas-of-c-s-lewis-2662 Find inside: • The nature of hell • Wisdom v/s Science And more!

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Different timelines (Earths) co-exist, and everyone chooses the right timeline (Earth) in accordance with his thought / feeling / vibration. Some are positive, and some are horrible, ending in nuclear destruction, New World Order, AI rule and hunger game, etc.

Family members and friends do not necessarily choose the same timeline (Earth), and they move on to the timeline (Earth) they choose. No need to follow them. To each his own, literally speaking.

Have you ever heard or read any of Jane Roberts books? Like the “Seth series” “Seth Speaks”

I heard about the books, but I never read them.

Probably unrelated. I heard about an Australian writer who was in coma for several weeks after a head injury. In the coma he had a dream or vision which was so realistic that he believed, after coming out of the coma, that it was the reality.

When his son told him, “No dad, you were in coma during all these days in hospital,” he couldn’t believe it because the vision was so real. In the vision, he continued to do the same daily routine, getting up in the morning, taking the dog to the beach, doing the house chores and then writing, etc.

His son became upset because, after being driven to home, he started looking for the manuscript he had (supposedly) written during these days.

Bottom line. We may continue to do the same after we die in the spirit world. If you’re a violent and criminal person, you may continue to live in a violent and criminal world.

If you’re a spiritual person (whatever that means), you may continue the spiritual path and endeavor to gain spiritual growth. If you’re a fraud, the afterlife will also be fraudulent.

If you’re a loving person, you may find yourself loving and being loved by others.

That was the conclusion of the radio interview on (Australian) ABC and I will post it if I can find it.

OK, this is the link, but I need to find that particular interview. The writer is well-known in Australia, but I forgot his name. His first name was Richard, the same as that of the interviewer.

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Yes I agree. The last state a person is in before dying is what they will carry into their next incarnation. Which is why spiritual fitness is so important and finding peace in that pursuit should always be a daily lifestyle.

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Julius Evola wrote that we are living through a “destructive spiritual process” and one of its symptoms is a corruption of traditional symbols. In his essay “The Inversion Of Symbols,” Evola shows that when communism won, it FLIPPED upside down the meaning of 3 vital symbols


1/ Evola writes that modern revolutionary movements take “the principles, the forms, and the traditional symbols” of healthier societies from the past and give them a new spin

He digs into 3 symbols

• The color red
• The word revolution
• The symbol of the pentagrammic star

2/ Evola on RED

In Ancient Rome, the Emperor was dressed and dyed in purplish Red to “represent Jove, the King of the Gods”

In Catholicism, the "Princes of the Church,” the cardinals, wear a scarlet red robe

Traditionally, red has been linked with hierarchy, order, and power



3/ In “classical antiquity,” fire was linked with the color red

The “heaven above heaven” was composed of pure fire

Red stood for authority and hierarchy

But in the 20th century it was co-opted by Marxists and made to represent the opposite:

Equality, masses, and democracy



4/ The word Revolution

Evola: “Revolution in the primary sense doesn’t mean subversion & revolt, but really even the opposite: return to a point of departure & ordinary motion around a center”

In physics this holds true: a planet’s revolution means “gravitating around a center”


5/ Revolutions keep planets in a stable orbit

Traditional societies imagined a revolution to be a movement that keeps the moral universe spinning in harmony

But Evola notes that revolutions now mean:

• Moving AWAY from stable centers
• Churn
• Destruction of regularity



6/ Evola: “Modern Revolution is like the unhinging of the door, the opposite of the traditional meaning of the term: the social & political forces loosen from their natural orbit, decline, know no longer a center nor any order, other than a badly & temporarily stemmed disorder"


7/ Evola on the Pentagram

The pentagram, a star, traditionally stood for man’s destiny as the microcosm that contained the macrocosm

It represented man as “the image of the world and of God, dominator of all the elements thanks to his dignity and his supernatural destination”


8/ The star represented man as “spiritually integrated & supernaturally sovereign”

But Marxists took this symbol and changed its meaning

They “terrestrialized and collectivized” it

It went on the flags of USSR and Communist China, becoming “destructive of every higher value”



9/ Evola: “This degradation of symbols is an extremely significant and eloquent sign of the times”

Symbols are the universal visual language

This radical transformation of their meaning is not accidental

They’re intentionally retooled for “inversion, subversion, & degradation”

Credit: Dholani

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There is nothing evil about swastika, hexagram, or even pentagram per se. Also the symbol of an eye inside a triangle was found in South America, dating thousands of years.

It’s always the satanists and satanist religions who hijack and pervert sacred symbols.

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It was a innocent symbol until Hitler re-appropriated it so yes the 3 symbols Evola writes about is indeed a process of destructive spiritual process.

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This is the most profound view of creativity. Out of chaos the most amazing works are created!