The Big Question — When (and if) to Impeach

The various arguments for and against immediate impeachment may have congealed, but as new information comes to light, via Mueller and other routes, attitudes will shift as the picture of Trump’s crimes and unfitness becomes clearer.

With so little case history on which to base opinions, we look at the two most recent, Nixon and Clinton. I think most would agree the facts are better compared to Nixon’s case. An important fact in both cases was that the impeaching party had controlling majorities in both chambers, but even with Democratic control of the Senate, an impeachment recommendation only came out from the House committee after more than a year of extensive and intrusive hearings by Sam Ervin’s Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities.

A poll study by Pew is informative, showing net agreement with removing Nixon was achieved only at that last moment, in the four days between the House receiving the recommended Articles of Impeachment and Nixon resigning.


We have only one chamber, and it seems best to focus on facts, on bringing the truth to the public. The Constitution does not compel impeachment, but with facts visible to enough Republican voters, it may become possible to achieve a conviction.

Just telling Trump voters, who hold Senators like Lindsey Graham hostage, that their guy is a crook will cause them to affirm their convictions, like most believers in the absurd. But a slow trickle of facts in the words of various crooks, including Trump, may erode that dike and then the flood will follow.


Anyone who thinks Trump is going to be removed from office is high on drugs. Another reason not to legalize drugs.

It’s not going to happen.

Those that ought to be worried about going to jail are Obama, his inter circle, many that were at the DOJ/FBI/CIA/DNI, and of course Hillary and her lackeys.


Impeachment on what ground again?

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Yeah, you guys run with that. :roll_eyes:

What exactly were those "crimes " ? Why wasn’t Trump charged if your imagined crimes were there ? Are you saying after two full years of every anti-Trumper possible on that f-ed up “team” they could find a charge ? What about trying to use that 200 year old logan law that was used on some poor soul ? When will you admit this was a f-ing shame from day one , now go back to screaming at the sky !

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I would be in favor of hearing from now until inauguration day to establish possible impeachable offenses.

Keep the pressure on. Only move forward with impeachment if it becomes slam dunk…

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They have no grounds just public opinion hyped by the progressives and the media.

The House has a Constitutional duty to start impeachment proceedings with an investigation if there is a reasonable presentation that the president has misused his powers and failed to fulfill his duties in ways that have caused harm and threaten further harm. But the 25th also creates a duty to appoint a body to suspend the president if there is a reasonable presentation that he is unable to discharge those powers and duties. The cabinet and VP have failed to suspend an apparently disabled president, so that responsibility falls on Congress, and a Congressional investigation is the first step, as it is with impeachment.

However you come down on the question of the political advantages and disadvantages for 2020 of starting vs avoiding impeachment proceedings, it seems to me that similar reasons apply to starting vs avoiding House hearings into Trump’s mental competence, only the latter is less risky of the downside consequences, and more likely to produce the buyers’ remorse in 2016 Trump voters that we need to defeat him in 2020.

In addition to these same, but reduced/enhanced, 2020 risks/benefits as impeachment, looking into his competence has an entire dimension of benefits not created by impeachment inquiries.

Looking into Trump’s ability to discharge the powers and duties would cover pretty much the same ground as looking into whether or not he has actually been discharging those powers and duties the past 2+ years, whether he has actually understood any of the pieces of paper his handlers have put his name to during his administration. Quite aside from causing buyers’ remorse in 2020 among his former supporters, that would yield more immediate dividends in the form of challenges to the validity of what would have to be considered pretended acts of this president.

While Trump is quite unlikely to be removed from office by either conviction on impeachment (because that would require 2/3 of the Senate) or a vote of this “other body” appointed by law to decide on his disability (because there won’t ever be such other body established in law unless we get 2/3 of both chambers to override the veto it would be certain to attract), there is the possibility that in his dementia he will order things so obviously and immediately catastrophic that his handlers would have him carted off for the 48-96 hour involuntary confinement for psych evaluation that is a pretty standard feature in all jurisdictions. Making that call is never going to be easy for his handlers, but it would be much more likely that they would get it right and decide that the Trump behavior in question threatened immediate harm to self or others, if there was already an ongoing Congressional investigation into his mental competence. The existence of such an investigation would also make it much more likely that Pence and the cabinet would suspend Trump for at least the duration of his confinement for the psych evaluation, and then not agree with Trump after the 48-96 hours is up that he is able to resume the powers and duties.

Lastly, evidence that Trump should be suspended for mental incompetence indicts the VP for his ongoing collusion in the pretense that Trump is some sort of stable genius. That’s impeachable behavior far more clearly than failure to call on Trump to resign over Trump-Russia. Not that Pence is any more likely to be impeached than Trump, but he would be far more discredited as a Trump successor for their nomination in 2020 for pretending for 2+ years that a demented person was actually making decisions that he patently was not, than for pretending that Trump shouldn’t resign over his criminal and ethical lapses. Almost all potential Trump replacements to be their candidate in 2020 suffer from the same handicap, years of pretending that the demented guy is a stable genius.

Two final points about dementia.

Most people have an unbalanced idea of the disease, because its sufferers are not usually diagnosed until quite late in its course. Trump does not have late dementia. He can still recognize his children, and he doesn’t think it’s 1997. But he patently cannot understand his powers and duties well enough to discharge them. He has arguably the most complicated and difficult job on the planet, and inability to understand its complexities and nuances would be expected much earlier in the course of dementia than inability to recognize one’s children.

Lastly, stop thinking of dementia as an abstruse and technical diagnosis. Its criteria are simple. The patient must exhibit functional impairment in going about his daily life that has no reasonable explanation besides an ongoing cognitive impairment. We already have these criteria on Trump. He doesn’t just make the mistakes and missteps in the daily performance of this job that any president will of course make because of its impossible complexity. He goes much further and gives almost daily evidence that he doesn’t understand even its basic parameters. Most of the things he says that are amazingly divorced from reality can indeed be explained by the usual BS and lies that our system, in its metaphorical dementia, allows and even encourages in our politicians. But only literal dementia can explain a clear residuum of Trump’s word and deed.

I keep hearing all the crimes has suppose to have committed, but when pressed for actual evidence all I get is accusation, hearsay and innuendos.

Meanwhile we have actual solid evidence of Clinton crimes…and evidence of abuse of FISA courts etc.

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What I want to know who did Mueller investigation? His band of angry democrats or the media?

Because 95 Mueller so-called investigation had played out in the media except for grand jury…or were they leaking it entire time?

Which is it?

Furthermore the investigation went forward, it was never even remotely stopped. The innuendo is that Trump wanted to obstruct the investigation and so he should be impeached on those grounds. It’s like convicting someone for wanting to assault someone even though the assault never did happen.

You’d make a good fiction writer.


Bwaha, there won’t be any impeachment proceedings, that would involve hearing both sides of the story and Obama and Hillary wouldn’t come out of that very well. No, they’ll try him in the court of public opinion where the public only gets to hear the accusations of Meuller and House Democrats.

If Trump wants to get another term though, he better light a fire under Barr to show this investigation was politically motivated. It’s astounding that a sitting President undertook an investigation of the opposition party’s Presidential candidate and has gotten away with it this long. If he can’t decisively prove that was a gross misuse of office by Obama over the next year or so, he doesn’t deserve a second term.


They need to asked Shifty Schiff. That jerk has been screaming about having evidence for months. Time for that jackwagon to put up or shut up. I’d nail his ass live on TV and tell him either put the evidence on the table or walk the hell away and shut yer pie hole.

This whole thing has made me a tad grumpy and less likely to be polite.

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Politeness is not required. Let it all hang out!

Adam Schiff is a friggin’ LIAR! He should be impeached and drummed out of our government!


Why would they impeach? It resembles a trial, the other side would be allowed an actual defense. And have to love their defense, if a President is an agent of a foreign power, as we made clear we believe, we aren’t going to do anything about it because a) it might harm us in the next election and b)we believe republicans would never convict, meaning we think they’re also an agent of a foreign power or at least ok with the President being one. What patriots they are. Are these the people you want running the country? Willing to surrender the country without so much as an impeachment let alone a shot fired?

Well that or they don’t really believe he is in fact compromised or an agent of Russia.

Take your pick.

It’s sour grapes . Crooked Hillary couldn’t win and dems wanted a re-do . It was a conspiracy with the DNC , Hillary , a Russian SPY , the FBI , and leading the charge was the liberal media . WaPo wrote more stories about the Russian investigation than the defeat of ISIS .
NY Times wrote 619 more stories about Russia than on the renegotiation of NAFTA .
CNN wrote 892 more stories about Russia than stories about the middle class .
It’s only common sense to resist being investigated for a CRIME you did NOT commit , that’s not obstruction of justice and never was , The special inquisition by anti- Trumpers were unable to conclude that ANYTHING the president said or did met the legal standard of obstruction !!!

I would you suggest you go for the impeachment of Trump.
You will piss off over half the country trying to displace an elected official.
You will further polarize a nation that is experiencing a divide never experienced before as the left like your self refuses to accept the decision made by the American people.
Your mental incompetence claim is a new angle since collusion failed, obstruction failed. Impeachable? Your opinion of incompetence is a long stretch, Bernie, delusional absolutely, Trump not so much.

Our Democrats believe the grounds to impeach Trump is the fact he exists; and whatever else they can fabricate.