Impeachment - Pro and Con

The Mueller Report already provides a solid case for impeachment to which I can add nothing.

It seems that the best argument for House Democrats not to start an impeachment inquiry this summer is that it would rally Republican voters around the president. But is that prospect something to be genuinely concerned about, or is it an irrational fear?

Also:

  1. What is the price of not impeaching this president?

  2. Is the prospect of impeachment in the House followed by acquittal in the Senate a guaranteed negative for the Democrats?

There are two major problems with not impeaching Trump.

First, Democrats need to do more than just win in 2020. They need a mandate. Fixing all the things that Trump screwed up is going to mean making a lot of unpopular decisions – and Dems need a large cushion in the House and Senate if the midterms in 2022 are not going to be a disaster.

And the only way that the Democrats get a mandate is if the base is energized. The party needs the base to do the grunt work including voter registration drives, pampleting, phone banking, pre-election voler outreach, and election day GOTV efforts. Not initiating the process is telling the base that their opinions don’t matter (and that the opinions that really matter are the DINO congresscritters who think that their constituents will freak out if the word “impeachment” is mentioned.). People who are treated with this level of disregard will still show up to vote, but they aren’t going to be in the trenches.

The other reason that impeachment is crucial is that Trumpism must be unconditionally repudiated. Trump will be the biggest issue in 2020 – Trump himself will demand it. The only question will be where the Democratic Party actually stands on Trump. If he is not eventually impeached, the Dems are saying "hey, this was really not that big a deal. There is no need to show any sign that Trump’s behavior demands the most urgent and serious response available. We can just coast along, act like everything is normal. " But if the Dems take a strong stand, and the nation stands with the Democrats, Trumpism can be more easily discredited.

Please humor me - what did Trump do that’s impeachable? What specific things are identified in the Mueller report?

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So you’re saying that for the GOP, the best course of action is to let Dems impeach trump, grudgingly remove him from office, and then make 2020 about everything but trump. That way they can say trumpism is not a thing, the economy is strong, the GOP is not a nazi party, everything is hunky dory, and why would anyone not want to re-elect President Pence?

If we’re trying to appeal to young white males as the only base of the Democratic Party, then maybe that Bernie Sanders garbage of “energizing the base” is the only thing that Democrats need to focus on.

But, I’ve been around for a few elections now, and watched the ultra successful Obama campaigns and they were about appealing to the women who usually do a lot of the voter registration and phone banking, etc. And given the anti-woman stuff that Republicans are about to unleash on women, seems like The Base that works will actually be quite energized, impeachment or no impeachment.

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If Trump lied all along about he didn’t collude with the Russians to win the 2016 Election that would be on him and he would have to live with that fact for the rest of his life. But unless, he was also convicted or charged with anything else; other than lying to the American people, it is notemphasized text**an Impeachable offense.
And besides, it hasn’t really been proven that Trump lied at all. If you seriously think that based on the Mueller Report, it is fact - you have another thing coming.

My point being, if he is “convicted” for any wrongdoings - then Impeachment is necessary. It is not a must - as the Democrats want to do. The Democrats hates Trump and most don’t want him in Office now - nevermind in 2020. So, they have nothing really to go on - since they have pretty much threw everything, incuding the kitchen sink. So, they are continuing to move the goal post even further - without any contentions.

As for any Pros on Impeachment - it will only help the Democrats because, they can go around saying “We told you [all] so…”
But that’s really it. Lol

I welcome the prospect of Republicans rallying around this president. Let them come out of their holes. Let’s have a summer of wall to wall coverage, town halls, interviews with Trump voters. Force them to confront the facts of the MR. Get Republican congressmen on the record defending collusion (yes, collusion) with Russia, and the crimes of obstruction. Force McConnell’s senate to acquit him in the teeth of overwhelming evidence. Let’s have the fight with Trump now, not wait until 2020.

It’s important to remember that Bill Barr is already working the intelligence trail to deliver a massive propaganda dump for the president, demonizing those who originated the Mueller investigation. How do Democrats propose to counter that, if not by getting Americans to confront the MR itself?

The beauty of all this is that Trump would have no one opponent to demonize. No Hillary Clinton, no Comey, no Mueller. It would be the whole country rising up against him. By contrast, if it is only in the 2020 election that he must defend himself, all he has to do is go after the nominee. William Barr’s propaganda will do the rest.

Richard Hasen has it right:

No one knows if a fairly done impeachment inquiry will hurt Democrats politically. No one knows if failing to seriously pursue an impeachment inquiry will hurt Democrats more. So it makes sense to do what is constitutionally required.

Still waiting for the impeachable offense other that it’s trump.

Innocent until proven guilty a novel concept in law. Where’s the proof for impeachment.

I know you don’t read the report lis most Americans and go with what your party says and the media parrots.

As to obstruction:
At the same time, if we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, we are unable to reach that judgment.”
As a side note, that’s the innocent until proven guilty.

I personally encourage the democrats to move forward with impeachment. Seems the only people who want impeachment is the regressive left wing of the party. The GOP is laughing at the democrats as thy attempted the same thing with Clinkton and he was guilty and got a get out of jail free card. The independents are saying get over it we want no part of it.

Think the democrats can win the WH in 2020 without the independents?

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Fairly done??? The democrats have already made up their mind.

Now that is a dream.

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No. The best argument for that is:

  • The Democrats have no grounds for impeachment
  • The Democrats have no evidence of high crimes or misdemeanors

In other words…the Democrats have NOTHING!

Adam Schiff is a lying son of a bitch! He has no evidence of collusion…and never did.

Maxine Waters is far beyond stupid.

Jerrold Nadler is just a powerful idiot, undeserving of his Chairmanship.

The Democrats have wasted time and money ever since Donald Trump announced his candidacy. The DNC and all elected Democrat officials should be forced to repay the Treasury for their salaries and expenses since January, 2017.

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If Mueller’s report can’t provide a solid case for impeachment, then it stands to reason you really do have nothing to add.

There is no “pro” to impeachment

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That is a good point and I am pretty much there.

The remaining step before announcing any version of impeachment process is when court orders, after appeals are exhausted, are defied. That is slam-dunk time in terms of the appearances. Acting before then invites the view of it as simply power politics, as it assumes facts not agreed on in a public forum. That is, we may know Trump is dirtier than the toilets at Woodstock but is not accepted fact. At this time, not cooperating can be spun as refusing to enable a vendetta that is just political. When a court says “You’re wrong, do what we order” the difference will be made plain, and impeachment becomes required by any standard.

What the heck? We MAY know… but it is not accepted as fact. :flushed:

Perhaps you are comfortable with maybe’s being perceived as fact, but I am not.

Remember, it could be you on the receiving end of maybe’s which then destroy your life because they become… fact.

You don’t fight this because you like or dislike Trump. You fight this because it represents what could happen to every American if it is allowed to stand.

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Not to mention he or she or it didn’t read the report, and this post is an exercise in catharsis therapy! They can’t even have a conversation among themselves let alone have one with those they disagree with! What do Democrats even stand for? Communism?

You know, what do Democrats stand for is actually a very good question.

From what I have seen of those elected it would be an end to the foundation of this country. Globalism, socialism, etc.

Yet, I don’t believe all Democrats stand for the radicalism any more than conservatives stand for RHINO’s or supremacists.

The common ground has gotten lost somewhere.

The hit and run squad is here again.

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The Dems have three choices:

  1. Grow the &^%*$ up and put the investigations and impeachment talk on a cold back burner. Then begin offering up legislation that the GOP would look broadly unreasonable for not passing. Don’t load it with ‘poison pill’ clauses, etc. Do the job they were elected to do. Rein in the leftist nut fest of impossible freebie giveaways, and stop demonizing White males.
    Predicted outcome: victory in 2020 in all three branches. America wants adults to lead them, not middle school kids with anger issues.
  2. Don’t grow up and continue the railing for impeachment (but not impeaching) while dragging every poor schlub within 6 degrees of separation from Trump to be grilled and insulted by ‘Pupuka Pua a’ Hirono, etc…
    Predicted outcome: GOP victory in all three branches; The Dems will look impotent in their attack, incompetent at getting legislation passed, and insolent to the taxpayers.
  3. Impeach the President. If the SCOTUS doesn’t throw it out as illegitimate, the Senate will simply vote no. There is no way to spin a loss of that magnitude, and while the progs will riot, and as video of violent protests fill the airwaves/internet, along with screaming Dem crazies, America will fear the Dems.
    Predicted outcome: Crushing, humiliating, GOP victory in all three branches.

Not bad…

He’s Orange…