I was speaking to the poster that questioned the Mueller report. I know already that trump will be impeached but not likely removed from office by senatorial conviction.
That was a good start. But these folks need things laid out in detail. The fact is, we are at war. The Ukraine scandal is a part of the #trumprussia scandal. Ukraine is a front line battlefield in the Russian and neo-fascist war against Western Democracy. It’s Putin/Trump vs. the Western alliance. It is fundamentally about propaganda & might makes right vs. objective truth and the rule of law.
The story is actually quite simple:
- Ukraine overthrew Putin puppet, Viktor Yanukovych, in 2014. Who was Yanukovych’s top political advisor who effectively weaponized Russian active measures to help him win an election in 2010, jail his opponents and stay in power?: Paul Manafort.
- Putin’s response to the prospect of a free, independent and pro-EU and pro-NATO Ukraine was to invade it, take Crimea and declare war on Western Democracies. Over the next few years, he went on an aggressive cyberwar campaign against several European countries: UK, Germany, France, Italy, Austria, and the US and met with some success. Putin’s ability to lock into and manipulate far right parties and movements as forces of disruption in western democracies undermined and destabilized the West from within.
- The crown ■■■■■ in Russia’s war against the West was the US election of 2016. Russia and Trump conspired to violate US laws, undermine the 2016 Election to elect Trump and defeat HRC. They both tried to cover it up, primarily by using propaganda to shift blame, confuse the media and public and overpower their enemies.
- Ukraine became an important part of the cover-up. Why? Paul Manafort (and Roger Stone + the entire far right media empire that Stone and his ilk are plugged into). Manafort was fired from the Trump campaign in Aug 2016 because his shady UKR connections were outed by Ukrainians. It threatened to unravel the entire corrupt Russian intel operation to help Trump win. The media ignored that story, however, and allowed Russia and the Trump campaign to skate.
Manafort desired revenge b/c he went into a tailspin after losing out, and the Russians and Trump needed a counter narrative against the growing evidence that Russia and Trump colluded or conspired to rig the election in their favor. So the elements of the counter narrative based on Orwellian themes formed. The approach is simply to flip the script. 'You’re a thief. No, No. You’re the thief!. Up is down. Black is White. That sort of thing. You get the picture.
It all presupposes a low attention span population, an intellectually incurious media that values scandal and story over truth, and an environment of dog eat dog political opportunism. That pretty much describes America to a tee. It also assumes an ability to mass produce narratives and commentary in the media. The Russians and GOP have demonstrated expertise in this area. [Roger Stone has pushed many of these ideas in his many media appearances on the Russia matter and in his legal briefs]. So here are the pieces of the Russian/Trumper counter narrative:
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Crowdstrike : Crowdstrike, the security firm hired by the DNC to discover the hack, ID’d Russia as the source. Naturally, therefore, Russia/Trumpers flip that script to say: Crowdstrike hacked the DNC. Inside job.
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Seth Rich : Seth Rich, a young man who worked for the DNC, was murdered in Jul 2016. So naturally, the Russia/Trumpers drag Seth Rich into their web of bullshit and say DNC murdered Seth Rich because he ‘saw things’ relating to said ‘inside job’. The Russians/Trumpers tried to cover up their crimes. So naturally, the Russians/Trumpers flip the script to say the DNC’s motivate to murder Seth Rich was to cover up their crimes (inside job).
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Ukrainian Whistleblowers : Serhiy Leschenko, UKR pol and journalist, and Alexandra Chalupa, a Ukrainan-American who consulted for the DNC in 2016 and gave folks a primer on Manafort’s crookedness (among others) essentially outed Manafort and described his Russian connections and the Russian M.O. of election interference through propaganda and cyberwar. So naturally, the Russians/Trumpers flip the script to say “Ukrainians” conspired with DNC/Clinton to frame Russia for the Russian interference campaign. (Keep in mind Nunes has called out Chalupa, Steele by name in House hearings. This conspiracy theory is an active part of his messaging for Trump).
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Christopher Steele : Christopher Steele was hired by GOP opponents of Trump and later retained by attorneys for Clinton to do oppo research on Trump’s business connections to Russia and instead they uncovered the entire #trumprussia conspiracy in real time. So naturally, the Russians/Trumpers flip the script to attempt to discredit the dossier, and accuse Steele of conspiring with Clinton to make stuff up about Russia and Trump. If you recall 2017/2018, attacking the Steele Dossier was the primary GOP/Sean Hannity/Fox/Trump talking point in response to the Mueller investigation. [Too bad for them most of the Dossier was validated and few if any claims discredited].
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Biden’s Cleanup of Ukraine : After Ukrainians overthrew Yanukovych in 2014 and sent him packing back to Moscow, President Obama appointed Joe Biden to run point on western efforts to stabilize a free and independent Ukraine. He looked into the issue of corruption and collectively the group said that the Moscow/corruption friendly prosecutor Viktor Shokin needed to be removed. One reason Biden cited for Shokin’s removal was his refusal to investigate corruption among certain UKR companies, including Burisma, the firm on whose Board of Directors Hunter Biden served (btw, the Burisma activities that would’ve been reviewed were prior to Hunter Biden’s entry on to said Board). So, Biden had no conflict of interests. Joe Biden, in fact, acted against his son’s personal interests. So naturally, the Russians/Trumpers flip the script to say that “Biden fired a Special Prosector to protect his son because he’s corrupt!” But keep in mind why it’s important for Moscow to undermine this Joe Biden led effort: cleaning up Ukraine meant making it easier to integrate UKR into the EU and perhaps NATO. That pushes UKR out of Russia’s orbit. For Russian nationalists like Putin, that is like a death blow.
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Rudy Giuliani and Paul Manafort: Fast forward (or go back to depending on your perspective) to October 2018. Paul Manafort has been convicted. He signs a plea/cooperation agreement with Mueller. Mueller is in the quiet zone to avoid messing with the upcoming midterm elections. Trump knows he’s about to lose control of the House. They need to keep Manafort from outing him and Jared Kushner, among others. They’re desperate. Enter Rudy. Yes, Trump is desperate but so is Paul Manafort. They talk through attorneys and cook up a deal: Rudy offers support for Manafort, dangles a pardon, and offers a commitment to spend then next year undermining the findings of the Mueller probe. If Rudy is able to accomplish that, he tells Manafort, that can set the stage for a pardon. Manafort buys it, knowing that Trump needs to undermine the Mueller probe findings to win re-election. Manafort offers up the conspiracy theory involving Ukraine (all the elements above) and tells Rudy that he can use that as the platform to undermine the Mueller findings. Rudy considers it and makes the connection that it’s possible to wrap Biden into this because of his prior involvement in post-Maidan revolution cleanup when he was VP. Rudy sells it to Trump. Trump approves. Manafort approves. Manafort does his part to renege on cooperation w/Mueller and go to jail. From Jan through August 2019, Rudy works assiduously to lobby UKR officials. He gets contacts from Russians and perhaps Manafort to reach the shady prosecutor Lutsenko and he starts voicing lines that Trump wants to hear re: Biden (he’s been bought). A new UKR president is elected in April who is anti-corruption. Trump and Rudy put the squeeze on him, bypass the entire bureaucracy to extort him and the rest we now know.
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Lord Barr : As part of Trump’s grand plan to win re-election by undermining the Mueller probe’s findings and changing the corruption narrative to attack Biden, HRC and the Democrats, AG William Barr launches an investigation into the ‘origins of the Russia investigation’. This is the very issue that Kamala Harris called Barr out on in his May testimony before the Senate. What Barr intends to do is raise a whole bunch of accusations against all those that were key to the investigation of the Trump-Russia investigation, undermine and discredit them, and ultimately prosecute them. The first test case here is Andrew McCabe. Barr pushed all the levers at the DOJ to rig a prosecution against him, but a GJ appears to have said no. Barr’s ultimate targets are Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden. He wants to launch investigations into them and provide a counter narrative under the imprimatur and formal authority of the DOJ to give Trump the ideal platform to flip the corruption and criminality script on Democrats and ride that to reelection. This Trump-Rudy shakedown of UKR President Zelinskyy is an important input into Lord Barr’s overall scheme to criminalize and delegitimize the entire #trumprussia story. It’s like the second Death Star that the Emperor hurriedly builds in Star Wars Episode #6. Barr didn’t count on getting caught by a whistleblower and he didn’t count on Nancy Pelosi jumping at the opportunity to impeach Trump. Tables have turned for the moment.
Why did Trump Go Down this Rabbit Hole? To Erase the Fact that He’s an Illegitimate POTUS.
In short, the Ukraine scandal is Trump’s considered attempt to undermine the foundations of the Mueller investigation, and thereby discredit all of its findings, the prosecutions, guilty pleas and convictions associated with it, in order to defeat the one thing that has plagued him throughout his presidency: the fact that he is an illegitimate POTUS who gained control of the Presidency by openly conspiring with the Russians to undermine the US elections system and defeat Hillary Clinton. For Trump, he cannot win in 2020 with the #trumprussia scandal defining him. He must dominate it.
Why Has Russia Likely Provided Trump Assistance Here?
They want to swallow Ukraine whole and they need the help of their puppet in the US to do it. I believe that Russia was waiting for Team Trump to deliver on this anti-Biden propaganda campaign to both undermine the Democrats and the democratically elected gov’t of Ukraine to set the stage for further incursions and seizure of territory. I suspect Putin had bigger plans to annex much of Ukraine into Russia because he got away with it to some extent in Crimea. That Rudy and Trump f***ed this up has them pissed, and it threatens to see Vladimir Putin’s 5 year war against the West end in abject failure. That is why you might see the Russians seriously contemplate a pull back from Trump, allowing him to fail and just consolidating the gains they’ve made to date.
We’re at a critical point in this story. Trump has been outed on a key piece of this scandal, but many don’t see the full picture yet. That’s not necessary to impeach him, but it is important for Democrats to know what they’re up against in 2020 should Trump manage to stay in office and be on the ballot.
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bullshilt, what was Manafort indicted for?
hint, read the indictment
I will post it for you, and read the “introduction” just in case you dont want to read the entire thing
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163372/Paul-Manafort-Rick-Gates-Indictment.pdf
nothing like cherry picking, what does the last 3 lines say?
cherry picking and you didn’t read the entire report, that meeting took place Dec 2016, Trump already won the election in November, that meeting ( the second apparently) was about Kushner as a CEO of his company meeting for business vs the diplomatic channels
please keep going, dazzle me some more with your bullshit
Here is an excerpt from Mueller report, I will even give you the page number
volume 1, page 144
As soon as news broke that Trump had been elected President, Russian government officials and prominent Russian businessmen began trying to make inroads into the new Administration. They appeared not to have preexisting contacts and struggled to connect with senior officials around the President-Elect
b. High-Level Encouragement of Contacts through Alternative Channels
volume 1 page 146
According to Aven, Putin indicated that he did not know with whom formally to speak and generally did not know the people around the President-Elect.
Page 148
Nader developed contacts with both U.S. presidential campaigns during the 2016 election, and kept Dmitriev abreast of his efforts to do so.996 According to Nader, Dmitriev said that his and the government of Russia’s preference was for candidate Trump to win, and asked Nader to assist him in meeting members of the Trump Campaign.997■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■998 Nader did not introduce Dmitriev to anyone associated with the Trump Campaign before the election.
this is an excerpt from the Mueller report, some of it redacted
Is this the evidence you believe the Democrats have and is ready to indict Trump?
You and those who believe as you do are dangerous.
I just went through jury duty process where it was emphasized innocent until proven guilty. The burden is on the accuser to PROVE guilt.
Not guilt was proven yet you want to hang anyway.
That is about as anti-American as it gets.
You’re nothing more than the opposite coin of Supremacists hiding behind the veil of political correctness. Disgusting!
Ten examples of obstruction of justice, but due to a stupid DOJ policy, nothing happens just like nothing happened to Clinton, Bush and Obama. 
Actually Nixon was about to be impeached and the senate was prepared to vote to remove him , Nixon saw the writing on the wall and decided to resign vs being removed.
The same cannot be said for Clinton as not one Democrat Senator voted to convict him, not one, even though they knew the bastard lie through his teeth, as long as the economy was chugging along, Clinton got a pass.
The same cannot be said for Nixon.
Nice mega shitpost. Despite all that, if impeachment fails there will be a 2020 Trump landslide victory and a blood red Republican House and Senate for 4 years.
In theory this is how it looks like it is going to all play out at least right now all other things remaining equal of course…
But I just keep thinking to myself how much time still lies between right now and then the actual election in 2020- well over a year’s time in fact… And we all know how much can happen in a year’s time… With that said, it would appear to me as if the Democrats have shot their load prematurely, and that possibly they should have waiting at least 6 months or so before bringing out this latest Trump-Ukraine conspiracy…
But maybe the thinking for the Left is like it’s now or never- especially if the quoted prediction above proves to be true…
Honestly what disgusts me most about this whole recent Conspiratardery is that I’ve seen comments in the media from the likes of Mitch McConnell, Mitt Romney, Lindsay Graham, Dan Crenshaw, Jeff Flake, and many other alleged “conservatives” who it seems are more than ready already now to throw in the towel on Trump and hand the Left what it wants mostly without even a fight…
That shit is maddening in my view, and if there was any ounce of justice in this world, Trump would have the ability to flog each of these traitors endlessly each time they go out into the enemy media and give comfort or legitimacy to these conspiratorial tales with the potential to undue Trump (who is still a Zionist cuck).
Yeah, it’s worrisome that there’s still over a year ahead, and too many traitorous republicans to boot.
This is why I’m allowing myself to be confident about the situation: May as well have some optimism now if there actually may be black days coming. Why feel bad until you have to, if there’s nothing you can do to alter things? 
No thank you! You are the gift that keeps on giving here!
Republicans are the biggest threat to normal people in America.
We already know the Dems want to go full gulag, but these despicable traitorous “conservatives” are just liberals with a pretext. They will be the ones to usher in gun control, and have already shown themselves to be a roadblock to any sensible immigration policy.
Just like the Christian church in America, Republicans flatly refuse to put up any sort of fight or pushback to the liberal agenda, and instead have let themselves be dragged leftward for 75 years.
The sad part is that the Republican party actually does a fair job of representing the values of the current year white cuckservatives, who exist in greater numbers than I want to admit.
Holy crap! Keep hitting the bong as your long delusional fairy tale story telling is just as good as the blind telling everyone how the blue the sky is!
Shit post is right!
K, what hallucinogen were you on when you wrote that???
Oh this is getting better! While the Cultural Marxists here continue their denial is equivalent to canonizing a porn star as a saint! This story now has more holes than Swiss cheese and there will be no living this down when impeachment suddenly dies of it own fruition!
More damning for the Whistleblower hoax!
That was a great post @khyber but probably far too sophisticated for most of the people and Russian bots here. Allow me to summarize:
Trump colluded with the Ukrainian government to influence the 2020 election, while using congressionally-appropriated foreign military aid as leverage, then tried to cover it up, then denied it, then implicitly threatened the whistleblower who exposed him, then admitted he did it after denying it, then publicly requested China to collude with him too while throwing Vice President Mike Pence under the bus.
That brings everyone up to speed to where we are right now. You’re welcome.
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The case grew fishier still Wednesday after The New York Times reported that the (eventual) whistleblower first consulted with a Schiff aide, who suggested he file a complaint — and also briefed Schiff on the broad allegations.
This is reminding me of what Feinstein did to Kavenaugh. Same M.O.
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Much better to hitch your wagon to the liars in the democrat party.
Got it.
And not 1 shred of proof to any of your claims as it appears to be something from leftist troll.
We can only hope the police eventually charge you with a crime from an anomous source based on hearsay. Perhaps then you’ll recognize the similarities as you sit in jail.
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