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The squad is 4 members. They have had some success, but they are not controlling the Democratic Party. Like I said, Pelosi, Schiff and Perez are all Liberals. They are the heads of the Democratic Party. Obama and Biden are Liberals as well. No Progressive has controlled the Democratic Party in modern times, and that’s not close to changing now. The silent majority (the group that doesn’t follow politics until the Presidential cycle roles around) still votes heavily Liberal and rejects Progressivism.
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I agree with you on health care that the European style of health care system depends on the USA for health care innovation. Notice, Joe Biden, Amy Klobuchar and the other Liberals are not advocating for Medicare-for-All. Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, two Progressives, are. Nobody has done more to expose the problems of Medicare-for-All than Joe Biden, when he has repeated the costs and lack of knowing how to fund it, among other issues. When Joe Biden attacked Medicare-for-All in the debates, support plummeted for Medicare-for-All candidates, especially Warren.
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You make a bunch of assumptions about me and you should stop doing that. I don’t even call myself a Democrat. I disagree with you about what a Liberal Centrist would do. They are acting this way as a form of politics. President Trump is a revolutionary, he has transformed the Republican Party, this is a threat to the Democratic Establishment, so they going Scorched Earth and pulling out all the stops to try to stop him.
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Agreed on Burisma. You are wrong on something, though. Whether Biden’s son was on the board of Burisma or not, the investigation into corruption was going to happen anyways. It was required by law, because when Congress appropriated the money, they did so with a requirement that the Ukraine (the most corrupt country in Europe) work on their corruption.
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The impeachment of President Trump is just a political tactic. The Republicans did the same thing to Clinton as a political tactic. Both sides do it when they have some power but not most of the power. I’m certainly not happy with the impeachment, though, although there is some debate about whether President Trump has actually been impeached or not since the articles haven’t been delivered to the Senate yet.
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There’s another storyline on impeachment, though. It’s possible that Nancy Pelosi is trying to keep the Progressives happy with the impeachment while giving cover to passing a bunch of Trump’s policies. Remember, they passed the USMCA and some other policies around the same time as they impeached him, so everybody is talking about the impeachment instead of the win President Trump just got. And when it comes down to it, the Democrats have been obstructing but they have caved in the end on most issues. I think you need to stop thinking within the framework of “fair” or “right” and start thinking within the framework of “politics”.
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It makes no sense for the Liberals to focus on removing Progressives from office when they are allied. They need to expand their support, not diminish it. Again, think politics.
You are correct, I am liberally ignorant according to those differences. And, when I lived in Hawaii, I voted for Congresswomen Gabbard.
You would be surprised by some of my more liberal views on things, and based on our engagement, I’m willing to bet that we could have great conversations and enjoy a beer or glass of wine together.
The latest political move by your party is abysmal tho. And, I literally mean WAY to an extreme that WE cannot go. Your party is establishing a precedent for an ill defined procedure in the Constitution that would allow Partisan politics to overthrow democracy.
There is no high crime or misdemeanor and now we have to figure out how to ammend the Constitution so that no party can leverage Impeachment as a political football. The legislature needs to define “high crime or misdemeanor” and there must be a procedure for conviction for such a thing that precedes Congress’ pursuit/investigation of impeachment or at least is parallel to the investigation state. In other words, it must be determined that a high crime was committed before the house can vote on impeachment.
Look, I believe that it sounds like you and I could be civil because it appears that we could humble each other’s ignorance by providing each other with perspectives that are unique and we could be humble to concede our ignorance when it is apparent (e.g. the nuances between modern and classical liberalism). But, you ought to be equally perturbed by the pandering going on and the threat it poses to the balance of powers in our government and political peace among our population. Your party went too far and it’s up to people like you to bring the extremism into check before it gets out of control.
One must be careful when using always. They have not always been two different ideologies. For a while, only classical liberalism (of the two) existed.
Liberalism has morphed continuously toward full blown socialism (the next step is communism) and the liberals of just a few years ago didn’t like being called “liberal” so they invented the euphemism of “progressive”.
Progressive sounds so much more innocuous, indeed even desirable. I think it still fits perfectly with what they’re doing…progressing toward socialism…and then on to communism.
Today’s liberals are just as much an enemy of the United States as are the communists. Their treasonous activity in pursuing the impeachment of Donald Trump despite the fact that he was elected by the people is evidence of their hatred of our constitutional republic and the Constitution itself. Many among them advocate abolishing the Electoral College…the only thing standing between them and total control of the nation in perpetuity.
Blockquote I am curious and wanted to ask, do you consider yourself a liberal
Yes. I posted in the post about political leanings if you want to look at that. I describe myself as a Left-leaning Liberal Centrist that voted for Obama and Trump, and I like both Presidents.
Blockquote do you seek to find common ground to discuss ideas with people who views differs than yours or are you willing go to the tribal game that most Liberals like to do?
I prefer speaking with those that I disagree with because circle jerks aren’t fun. I discuss in good faith, although I prefer to focus on where we disagree than agree, because again, circle jerks aren’t fun. I certainly am not tribal (at least not within reason because everybody is tribal to some extent). The way you loaded it as “most Liberals” is pretty derogatory, though, and you don’t seem to acknowledge just how tribal Conservatives are.
As long as you mischaracterize and demonize those with whom you disagree, you will accomplish nothing, and your threat of violence makes matters even worse.
Yep, and the endless conflation of socialism with communism. 
I disagree with that characterization, only because most here have seen their fair share of liberals who are purposely obtuse, misrepresent facts all the time, and resort to hit and run tactics while applying moral relativism to every argument that is always intellectually dishonest, so most here have their defense up as a result of having narrow trust and you will find out on your own soon enough who the resident troll here is that fits those characteristics.
Anyway welcome to the forum and I look forward to learning more about you and your ideas, and hoping for a meaningful exchange and to learn from someone who differs in my views that doesn’t judge and can be intellectually honest with their arguments. It certainly would be refreshing to see if that happens!
Cheers
See, there you go with your nasty incivility…again.
50% of Americans want trump impeached and removed. According to Fox News poll 53% of Americans believe Trump has abused the power of his office, while 71% of Americans want witnesses to testify in the senate trial, including a sizable chunk of republicans.
50% of Americans have hated Trump since before he beat the inept candidate, Hillary Clinton. They have wanted him removed since before he was inaugurated.
That’s why all the polls regarding questions about President Trump and his accomplishments are meaningless…predictable and meaningless.
They cannot accept the results of a fair election. They are undermining the foundation of our constitutional republic.
Liberalism is the epitome of delusional thinking.
First, I’m not throwing around “white supremacist” to characterize everyone conservative, your party and the media do that. Second, I made no threat of violence. As someone who attended two military schools between high school and college before serving in the Marine Corps and civil service in the Air Force, I leveraged my subject matter expertise in military conflict to predict the outcome of your party’s extreme pandering, a lead to civil war.
You, unlike atheist4thecaus, are nonsensical like your progressive communist brethren. And, should we all get to a point of communicative impasse whereby your party becomes progressive to change the identity of the United States to your party’s NewMerica identity then I do predict war.
So, don’t be surprised about the consequences of stripping away people’s first and second ammendment rights. Your party wants to control what I can say so that I can’t speak to what it is doing and you want to disarm me so that I am defenseless against the police state you aspire regulates my speech. I bet that you agree with China’s reeducation camps and that you could have them enforced on Americans to have Jesus, free ideas, and the ideals of liberty replaced by secularism, social justice and equal outcomes for all!
The liberals always return to 50% of the people as being a winning argument.
We are not a democracy yet they keep pushing that lie. I’m not sure what it will take for them to understand that we are a constitutional republic and why what 50% of the people think isn’t as relevant as they would like it to sound.
Blockquote most here have seen their fair share of liberals who are purposely obtuse,
The reason you see Liberals doing this and not Conservatives is because you are on the Right and they are on the Left. This is an example of your tribalism blinding you.
Blockquote misrepresent facts all the time,
Have you heard Scott Adams talk about two moving on one screen? If not, I highly recommend you look it up. He is the creator of Dilbert and he wrote a bunch of books. I think he talks about it in “Win Bigly”, but he does a daily Periscope you can watch for free. Basically, Trump supporters and anti-Trumpers both look at the same set of facts and come away with completely different interpretations of what happened. It’s not that the other side is lying, they honestly view things differently. Republicans are more likely to make ridiculous claims when Democrats takes over the Presidency.
Blockquote Anyway welcome to the forum and I look forward to learning more about you and your ideas, and hoping for a meaningful exchange and to learn from someone who differs in my views that doesn’t judge and can be intellectually honest with their arguments. It certainly would be refreshing to see if that happens!
Thanks! Ditto.
The right today is no where near the right of just three decades ago. Character and morals were stated virtues of the right, their panties were in a twist over president Clinton who they considered to be amoral. That is gone, the right, and most notably the evangelical right, have shelved their principles in deference to circuit and SCOTUS judges they’ve wanted for ages. There may be some cracks forming, as noted by Christianity Today calling for Trump’s removal based upon his abuse of power and his immortality, but who knows if it will be a trend.
All of you on the right regularly invoke civil war, there’s no end to threads dedicated to the cause and it always ends up being injected somewhere. The impression is that you all are looking forward to such.
That’s about the third time I’ve seen you use that idiotic argument as if Christians are turning against the President. The fact that some editors of a magazine printed an OpEd denigrating President Trump doesn’t mean a significant number of Christians have changed their minds. Franklin Graham explained that the editorial in no way represents what his father would say today.
Yeah I completely disagree with you on that and you are being a little presumptive about me and on how I look at things or what my perspective is. There is plenty of examples I can cite that refutes your assumption about how the right and left view certain things, where one views the facts while the other applies plausible deniability. One side lies about the facts while other acknowledges them where it’s evidenced based. Perhaps another time we can go down this road and explore deeper. I have a classical performance I have to rehearse for as I performing on Christmas Eve Vivaldi suites and need to get cracking! Ciao for now!
I’m not using assumptions. I’m going off of what you said. Even the way you talk about the Right and Left as if they are monoliths shows how extremely tribal you are. I’m on the Left and do you know how many times I disagree with others on the Left? I’m pro-Trump and do you know how often I disagree with Trump supporters? Trust me, you don’t want to align yourself with all of the stupid things some Rightists have said.
Blockquote I have a classical performance I have to rehearse for as I performing on Christmas Eve Vivaldi suites and need to get cracking! Ciao for now!
Nice! I am no classical expert, but I love Vivaldi. Four Seasons is great. Bye now.
You have conceded to NOTHING in the discussions. You allow for no middle ground. When the opportunity for humility arises, you coward to Bill Clinton. In the meantime, your party is quick to force change and take advantage of ignorant people in the name of moral superiority.
Your values are acceptable in a lot of the world. Go there and live for at least five years before you conclude that what you want is that over there. In the meantime, leave the United States and its people alone. Go be socialist if you really believe in it, you won’t make me one in the process, and if you try to force it on me, there will be consequences to those actions.
You do realize that you are contributing to our enemy’s desires don’t you? You have been brainwashed and funded to create enmity that will allow the diversified population of China to take control of the world. Congratulations!
Well I could throw every bit of that right back on to you.
But instead I’ll just point out again that there are people of all walks and ideologies in America, and as America becomes more diverse, look for that to be even more so.
You cannot go back to the “good old days” whatever that may be sense “make America great again” has never been really articulated.
Nothing is certain but change.
You and your ilk can do whatever you want within the confines of the law.
The Constitution and Bill of Rights plays a big role in that, you enjoy the benefits of it, yet people like you would like to change what has been successful. For what reasons I really cannot fathom.