China - competitor, or opponent?


What? You think the US couldn’t land on the dark side of the moon? I am sure they could have if they wanted to.


Its not just corporate theft, I am talking about music, the Arts, Culture among other things they are stealing too. I am here and I see it every day. There are some pretty smart Chinese people who are capable of of their own thought but most of it is based on technology or ideas that were not born of their own innovation, lets get real, can you think of anything that the Chinese contributed to humanity other than gunpowder that is originally their own in the last 100 years? There is a reason why they educated their people at our Universities, and are constantly trying to steal our secrets, buy our companies and the ideas that they do come up with, is usually someone else’s.


That pretty much hits at the crux of my argument. If they want to continue with the Panda mask, dragon face approach when it comes to trade and intellectual property theft then why should they continue to get away with it without paying and have access to our markets? I say it would be a good thing for our national security when Americans and other countries to become less dependent on Chinese manufactured goods that ends up in a landfill after 3 years, and more about buying domestically made products that will last longer and have more value. It was China that has decimated our middle class who have exploited our trade policies along with becoming in-bedded within our institutions and have wielded lobbying power within our political system that has caused the most harm. Chinese play a zero sum game, and the current negotiations is nothing more than lip service in order to buy time until the next administration comes into power. They are still a communist country whose core ideology is to dominate the world, and therefore can never be trusted until they acquiesce to fundamental changes and stop acting like an adversary and actually follow the same laws as the world community follows.


Helped our economy hell. They steal our tech and we send them millions of manufacturing jobs to the point we’re having to buy components made in China for military vehicles.

They’ve made the average American poorer by far and have been a huge drain on the middle class.


WWII and the Communist Revolution left China a wreck for half a century.

Ten years from now they will have left us behind as they become the world’s largest economy.

Not bad after a half century of darkness.


That is based on speculation. Their current economy is actually in retraction and not doing so well. In fact they are facing a certain crisis with an aging population due to their own policies of one child per. If they wait out the Trump administration and succeed in getting a democrat into office then maybe they will surpass us while continuing to exploit our policies, but right now its pure speculation on where China’s economy will be in the next 10 years!


Sam Walton would disagree. As would thousands of other retail sector companies.

It is also true that China has made previously unattainable items available to middle and lower income americans, raising the quality of life.

Believe me, I am no fan of China, have first hand been a business casualty of the cheap goods retail expansion boom of the 90s. But for every story like mine (think small town, service heavy retailer put to of business by big box stores and their lower prices) there are countering positive stories about China and their influence on our economy.

For example, while the big box retailers put my company out of business, my town gained 100s of jobs. I employed 25. They employ 100s each…

Our local economy grew after my demise.

It is undeniable that the flood of low cost costs and the dramatic expansion of our retail sector is the major component of our economic expansion.

I do agree with you that this has hurt the middle class. But that is our fault. Not china’s.


Good lord man, their current GDP is 6%.

The only question about them becoming the world’s largest economy is whether or not they’ll get it done by 2030.


Man! You really missed the mark on that argument, economics is not your strong suit! GDP is not a true indicator of where China’s economy is heading. Try the recent last quarter numbers in Manufacturing!

As far as GDP, remember the US was at 8 to 9% at one point, and it already has double since Trump came into office!


Read your own citation genius, they are still growing.

GDP is the total output of the nation. That’s why it’s called “Gross National Product”.


DUH! But GDP numbers doesn’t tell the whole story genius! Why you simply can’t understand that, makes your entire argument rather silly! Again you are ignoring other factors. Like I said stick with what you know! Finance and economics is not your area of expertise!


From your own cited article.

Growth in the world’s second largest economy decelerated from 6.8 percent in 2017 to 6.6 percent last year, according to the National Bureau of Statistics. The decline is the result of cooling demand both at home and abroad.

That’s still considerably better by more than 1/3 than the US economy.


Right! Now who is missing the point? GDP is not the true indicator of an economy that is retracting! Also you ignoring the corporate debt in which is the highest in the world as well as their household debt which is among the highest in the world as well.

China is sitting on a massive real estate bubble and its only a matter on time before they have a crash. Not a matter of if, but when! Try again, otherwise I don’t want to waste my time with you if you are not going to acknowledge this as an important factor. Like I said before, you rather suck Chinese cock then be honest in your arguments, its apparent to me you are out of your depth on this subject matter so don’t bother with me in trying, yours is based on speculative Bullshit! NEXT!


Just quit, you’re making a complete fool of yourself.

An economy with 6% plus growth is not “retracting”.


OK yeah! It is you that is making a complete fool of yourself! China’s own economists contradict your argument! Who are we going to listen to? Some Internet camel jockey like you, or someone who actually does this for a living? You have no idea what the fuck your talking about! Try again old man! This time try presenting a balanced argument, which you seem to want go all in on China! Go ahead your just proving my point all the more! At this point your a waste of time trying to explain this to you as I will let others here prove how dumb your argument is!


But they didn’t and left the Chinese to do it so it disproves your point that the Chinese are incapable of original thought. The point is not “could have;” that is irrelevant. I can say I could have, should have, whatever and it means nothing.

Why Mars anyway? That could never have sustained life. The size, hence gravity is insufficient to ever to have held an atmosphere. Because of the lack of gravity, humans would really struggle there. I don’t think it is possible to last too long there without major health issues. I don’t understand the fixation with Mars, unless it is a smokescreen…


I’ve read that before but didn’t sink in. But IMO that’s bigger ticking time bomb then what we’re dealing with now.

Something like 20/25 percent of pop will be over 60 by 2030 I think?

As of 2012 we have less then 20 percent over 60…but that’s going to rise over the next two decades.

Also China is being hit hard not just from United States but other nations are expressing their own concerns of lost manufacturing and tech thief.

This graph shows that tariffs are started to have it’s effect…while ours is growing.

Even then their is speculations that China is exaggerated it’s last quarter growth so as not to show they have weak hand at negotiation table.


Just think…majority of population has been born since man last walked on the moon…IMO that’s the real tragedy.

I remember being fixated to boob tube durng those landing.


What? We went to the moon in the 60’s and China is just reaching there for the first time in 2018? Yeah that disproves my point how? My point is we already landed on the moon, and could have went anywhere we wanted on the moon! Obviously that is a point you missed or want to gloss over entirely. Sorry I disagree!

Why Mars? Because life can be sustained there due to discovering water on the planet. Have you heard of terra forming? That is an entire different debate altogether. Perhaps we can start a separate thread on that? Something I am sure some of us will find much more interesting and probably more in your wheel house as I acknowledge your more adept at science than I am.


That is correct! I work with a Chinese economist who says that the younger population will be burdened with higher taxes when the aging population is retiring to pay for their social programs that they will be needing. Also because they have a rising middle class manufacturing is going to be more expensive so naturally companies will be seeking cheaper labor costs in such countries like Vietnam, Cambodia, and India, which the latter is another emerging economy that will no doubt rival China in terms of work force based on population growth.