Aides leak tale of trying to stop Trump from leaving NATO

Understood. But that doesn’t alter my point.

The point is you have something like 4 of Europe’s top largest nation state economies that are larger then Russia. Germany, Brits, French and Italians…hell last I check Spain has almost as large as Russia.

I’m not advocating breaking our alliance…what I am advocating that they pull their weight.

Instead of American war ships shadowing Russian and Chines…there should be also couple of Europeans ships shadowing em as well.

After all, Europe has similiar interests, freedom of navigation, trade routes…aggression by rouge states etc.

Art of the deal.

I’m guessing you’ve never done anything remotely similar to negotiate a better deal?

Negotiating. …

Our support to EU countries in times of war is not dependent on our membership in NATO. Get a grip.

That’s all well and good until the country shadowing the russians decide their interests are better served allying with them…and forgets to shadow them so closely…

Right?

We don’t want big armies everywhere.

Of course it’s a different world today (largely because of NATO though really) but WWI and WWII show you what could happen when everyone in Europe is walking around with an army in their pocket, and their interests are wildly individual.

It also shows you how vital Article 6 (is that the one? If an ally is attacked, we are all attacked) is.

I realize you mentioned that you are not for breaking with NATO. But allowing other countries to assume the responsibilities of NATO directly does lead to the alliances demise.


Trump - and many, many conservative pundits and thinkers - and message board americans - like to complain about how the US pays too much for NATO. That is short sighted thinking. We WANT to pay the lions share. So we can control the alliance. We want to be the big spender. Because when you are paying for dinner, you get to pick the restaurant.

We will be the “big” spender regardless who steps up to the plate…after all our economy is so much larger then any one nation in Europe.

And I’m not talking about breaking all alliance.

So far nations that have proven Representative government hasn’t declare war on one another.

Unless you can give me a example.

Germany elected Hitler.

Hitler lost the election…and was appointed chancellor if my history is correct. :wink:

You think Germany or another European state can rise up and be another Germany?

Germany elected teh Nazi Party would have been more accurate.

So you admit Hitler wasn’t elected.

So do you think another Germany will rise up in Europe?

I think it’s more likely to happen on other side IMO.

But this is the more important point.

Yes, of course I do. Why would you doubt it?

(I’m not suggesting trump is a hitler like figure…) No one could imagine trump winning a few years ago. but he did. No one could imagine Brext a few years ago. But it happened. No one could image Russia invading Crimea so brazenly.

Or 9/11. Or ISIS.

Change, surprise, unexpected actions…these things are inevitable.

Best to keep foreign army sizes small.

Correct 0 his party won in a landslide, which resulted in his appointment.

What ‘other side’?

In Asia…

Well, we already have a HItler-esque figure in North Korea.

As for Trump…he was predictable. I predicted it long before Trump even announced his candidacy.

You can only take advantage of American people before they rise up.

And no…you shouldn’t suggest Trump being another Hitler.

That’s just left-wing fear mongering talking point to scare voters into compliance.

And you know it.

I’m not so sure that is true. Hitler had designs on conquering the world. Kim has no such grand designs.

The fact that he failed to mention China speak volume. :wink:

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One hundred percent agree.

That’s why I said I wasn’t.

As for predicting Trump - very prescient of you. But I’m just unclear as to what people were rising up FOR. I understand - I think - largely what they were rising up AGAINST…but…why did so many right leaning americans vote for a man who promised government sponsored health care, government subsidized employment ie: bringing coal back, protectionist trade policies in teh name of sheltering american workers from global competition, etc…?

Do you consider yourself left, right or center? And by predicting Trump, or someone like him, are you part of the uprising, or merely an observer?