What defenders of civilization in America must do - Part One

No, I don’t think that. I think the loss of authority of established religion is inevitable, in the long run. I’m not at all religious myself, by the way.

However, what is happening is not just the move away from organized religion. More is being abandoned than just belief in the Real Presence, or the Virgin Birth.

It’s a complex issue, and I can’t go into it in just one post. For one thing I would like to keep this thread focussed on the topic of what is likely to be coming in the US.

More importantly, I don’t really understand why what is happening, is happening. But then no one in the past was very good at understanding social change and predicting the future, so I’m not worried about my own incapacity here.

I just see the direction of motion and don’t like it, don’t believe it’s inevitable, and think that something can be salvaged from the wreckage. And so I’m trying to get people who roughly share my views to think and talk about this issue, although of course those who don’t share them are quite welcome to comment.

If by “state militia” you mean the professional military, then any such conflict, the “citizen’s militia” will be thoroughly defeated, if the military remains a coherent institution obedient to the government. In other words, if it retains democratic legitimacy.

Anyone who is seriously interested in this issue needs to do some reading, namely, the history of revolutions, both successful and failed. A good place to start is Trotsky’s History of the Russian Revolution, available as an eBook from Marxists.org. He very carefully examines the issue of how the “armed workers” (the Petrograd Red Guard) could ‘defeat’ the Tsarist Army. (Hint: it was NOT in a straight-up shoot out.) But there are many other things to read.

After Trotsky, read the collectively-written book entitled Armed Insurrection, ostensibly written by A. Neuberg. It’s also available on-line, I think from the same source. It’s almost entirely full of negative examples.

Further sources of negative examples will be the history of Leftist ‘guerilla focos’ etc in Latin America, attempting to imitate the success of the Cuban Revolution without doing the necessary preparation and waiting for the ripening of events. (How I wish our current generation of American Hard Leftists would try to follow in the steps of Che Guevara and all his imitators, but they’re not that stupid, or that brave.)

Which brings me to the main point: you don’t play with insurrection. I’ll say this: anyone within the patriotic ranks who is talking about fighting the police, guerilla war, resisting gun-confiscation by armed means, is either a conscious infiltrator, a paid enemy, or an idiot who is working for the enemy for free.

The time is not yet. It may never be … no one knows the future.

At the moment, we must patiently explain our views, try to win the sympathy or at least neutrality of the broad middle of the American people, and do the other things necessary to strengthen our side: this means developing the closest possible ties with the armed bodies of the state.

If you are a patriot, not yet 36 years old, and have not yet done your military service, then the path before you is clear. If you don’t fall into that category, you belong in a citizen’s militia (more about that in another thread). Talk is cheap.

As to whether people on the Right “look forward” to some sort of armed conflict in the US: no doubt there are some who do, at least from the comfort of their homes. After all, this is a deep-rooted instinct in normal younger males – try selling a video game which features giving food to the homeless or overcoming your own toxic masculinity.

And there are some people – I don’t consider them “conservative” or on the traditional Right, but I don’t care about semantics here – who have sinister motives: they want a race war. And, ironically, the Hard Left is working to give them one. Together, these people are trying to end the marvellous American Experiment, which has seen, over time, the creation of powerful state NOT based around a single tribal group.

But serious conservatives — or civilizationists, as I would call them, since I don’t think you need to be a Free Market worshipper to oppose what’s happening in the US – know that so long as there are avenues open for democratic dissent … in other words, so long as the current system has democratic legitimacy in the eyes of the great majority … then anyone who genuinely takes up arms against the current government (as opposed to just blowing a lot of hot air about it) will be crushed, and will deserve to be crushed.

But the advance of the Progressive Left agenda is probably going to destroy the United States. The transformed Politcally-Correct Open Borders nation that they envisage will be too weak to withstand the big shocks that are probably ahead (economic depression, military defeat, natural catastrophes caused by global warming, assuming that this continues.)

Any grown-up wishes that this never happens. But if wishes were horses …

What comes out of the wreckage cannot be predicted in advance, but a serious, armed, organized group of people who know what they want can make a difference in favor of civilization.

As for the video-game warriors who light-mindedly talk of civil war … well, old Pindar had it right: Dulce Belllum, Inexpertis.

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Well, I’m not going to disagree with that. I think that’s pretty much what everybody’s doing. Obviously there’s vast differences in opinion on what is the good/right direction for the country, and again on how to get there. But when we begin to talk about violence and civil war, you can count me out. That’s what there’s been far too much of throughout human history…

I’m just never going to agree with you that Americans, left and right, are setting around plotting and planning how to destroy America.

What the right sees, and thinks, and wishes to accomplish is what they think makes America better and the same with the left and their vision and ambitions.

And the tug of war between the two have always been there and always will and we owe it to the future to make sure it doesn’t go to killing, which is really stupid.

No, you’re right. It’s not a “plot”. Almost everyone who is involved in politics thinks they are fighting for some ideal.

Example: when the “Patriot Prayer” group tries to have a rally in Portland, they think they are standing up for Free Speech. When Portland Anti–fa attack them physically, they think they are defending racial minorities and gays from Fascism.

When Charles Murray tries to speak at a college campus, he believes he is bringing his insights as a libertarian social scientist about what needs to be fixed in America to young people at university who need to hear all sides. When the radical left incite violence against him and prevent him from speaking, they think they are defending “safe spaces” where people won’t be made uncomfortable by hearing racist ideas.

I sometimes argue with fellow atheists on a certain forum. Most of them are Left wing, some exceedingly so. Recently, we had an argument about patriotism and the flag. Most of them were scornful of patriotism, the Pledge, the Flag … “just a piece of colored cloth” etc. No doubt they consider themselve very rational, rejecting these tribalist rituals. I don’t have time to repeat my arguments here, but I believe that these tribalist rituals, non-rational as they are, are one of the few things that hold this multi-racial society together.

It’s like the Law of Unintended Consequences: when the French Revolutionaries overthrew their King, they didn’t anticipate the guillotine working around the clock, and certainly not on them, as finally happened. They didn’t predict or want a Napoleon. The Russian revolutionaries didn’t want a Stalin and the Gulags.

You can’t get very far in predicting the outcome of implementing someone’s political program, by noting that they have good intentions.

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I am a veteran just like the majority of the members here. I am not falling for the Blue Lives Matter bullshit. The cops don’t deserve the same level of respect as the military - especially as the police have become militarized. This is the type of dumb shit that these wannabe tacti-cool operators do.

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America is often outwitted in the middle east though? In context, maybe the answer to Where In The World Is The U.S. Military ought to be ‘Hopefully not in the Middle East’?

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Only if you know who that ‘anyone’ is, and in the sense of a threat, that might not be knowable? Contrary to western thought, these middle easterners aren’t stupid, they’re highly intelligent - moreso than us, in fact.

That’s why I’m glad that our cops don’t have guns . . . most of them are too dumb to be in possession.

All sane adults agree with this. But, as Trotsky once said, “You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.”

The way to avoid being the victim of violence is for those who might victimize you to know that they will pay a very high price for trying to do so. This means you must have access to the means of defending yourself, which means the ability to inflict violence back on your attackers.

Sorry, but that’s just the way Darwinian evolution has made the world.

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Well that’s futilist…

God didn’t, it was an iceberg. But had I been there & had a ticket; and heard someone say " God couldn’t sink it", I’d be cashing in the ticket as quickly as possible.

Police are ordinary people. They do a dangerous job. They get killed on the job.

Some of them shouldn’t be doing that job. I sure as hell wouldn’t want to do it. The ones who do terrible things like this need to be held accountable, taking all circumstances into account. I could post a half-dozen more examples like this one easily. (And by the way, the military is not lily-white pure when it comes to killing innocent Americans … remember Kent State?)

But overall, they’re the good guys. It’s the LEFT who hate the police. It’s suicide to join them in this. We should be doing just the opposite, and supporting them against the communists. If there is a volunteer deputy sheriff program in our areas, we should be in it.

The John Birch Society, back in 60s, used to have a nice bumper sticker: "If you don’t like the police, the next time you’re in trouble, call a hippy."

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No … or at least, ‘No’ if I think you’re saying what you’re saying. That is, we CAN minimize violence, we CAN make for a safer and fairer world … but we can’t do it just by eschewing all violence and becoming pacifists.

The Good Guys must have organized violence at their disposal. That’s the number one first obvious thing.

Then we can talk about how to make society better, based on history – what has worked in the past. But the world of human society is a complicated place, and it’s not obvious ‘what works’. That’s why we have politics, and political arguments. And sometimes wars.

Wasn’t it a good thing that it was the US – and its allies – who had the most organized violence at their disposal 75 years ago?

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The human foible exists in every man. Myself, I do not have the patience to be a police officer. Just too nerve - racking. Every shift would end with, "And then your honor, that’s when I shot the bastard’. I try to be respectful of the police. Best to be tactful; and more often than not, you walk away. Still, like in every profession, there are those who should be doing something else.

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The tragedy of the American military power is that it hardly serves the interest of average Americans.
The bigger tragedy still is the fact that the average Americans do not realize it.

It is a question of when, and not if, America is going the way ancient Rome went, unless they realize it soon.

General Patton realized America and its allies had defeated the wrong enemy, and I fully agree with him.

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The Russians were just as evil as the Nazis when it came to crimes against humanity. Soviet war crimes - Wikipedia

https:// en.wikipedia.org /wiki/ Soviet _ war_crimes

And there it is, that was the point.

Lmao, there are no good guys. Of course I know, “we’re” always the good guy.