Does Vietnam have the right to defend against threats to its own sovereignty?

#1

Vietnam jails three more activists in crackdown on Facebook posts

by Reuters

Thursday, 28 November 2019 12:14 GMT

  • Vietnam cracking down on anti-government posts on Facebook

  • Number of activists jailed this month alone rises to five

  • Rights groups decry “climate of fear” in Vietnam (Recasts to add sentencing of two more activists)

image
image799×456 81.6 KB

HANOI, Nov 28 (Reuters) - Vietnam has jailed three more people for anti-government posts on social media platform Facebook deemed to defame the ruling Communist Party and the government, state media and police said on Thursday, bringing the total imprisoned this month to five.

Despite its sweeping economic reforms and openness to social change, the party does not tolerate criticism and its leader, Nguyen Phu Trong, has intensified a crackdown on dissidents and activists since being re-elected in 2016.

Pham Van Diep, a 54-year-old activist from the northern province of Thanh Hoa, was jailed for nine years for spreading “distorted information defaming the Communist Party and the Vietnamese government”, the Vietnam News Agency (VNA) said.

“He also spread fake and baseless news about the country’s policies, which caused Facebook users and residents to misunderstand the party and the government,” it added.

The posts were uploaded between April 2014 and June 2019, VNA said, adding that he had also been jailed for 21 months in Laos for spreading anti-Vietnamese literature there in 2016

Doesnt a nation have the right to protect its own sovereignty?

Putting the matter of freedom aside, doesnt a national government have the right and the responsibility to stop the forces which threaten that government’s existence?

#2

How can you distort something as fucked up as communism? Communism has an unblemished history of human misery.

3 Likes
#3

Agreed.

I am as big a critic of Communism as anyone around.

But, from THEIR point of view, they have a right to defend the system of government they have in place.

Whether it is a form of government which is as screwed up as Communism or as wonderful as ours is.

Think of a mass murderer serving a life sentence.

Does he have certain rights?

Should he?

Well, even the worst governments and systems of government on Earth have the right of self defense.

#4

You are equating the government with some kind of supreme being or entity. The government is made up by the people and for the people. If the government is not for the people then it is against the people. If that’s the case then the people have the natural and god-given right to rise up and be free.

2 Likes
#5

Very good argument.

However, using that argument, one could justify the coup against President Trump by the Leftists.

Or am I missing something?

:thinking:

#6

Established Communist governments are notorious for defending their system. Anyone remember Stalin? Uh Oh that fart doesn’t smell right; so it’s off to Siberia. When the US left Vietnam, there was a bloodbath for anyone pro USA. Cambodia did not do too well either. I won’t even get in to North Korea. Or Mao.

#7

Doesn’t every nation have the right of self defense?

#8

Wait a minute I thought we were talking about Vietnam?

I don’t think that’s a good comparison. President Trump won an election fair and square. His administration hasn’t done anything to crack down or suppress the left. Instead, the left is subverting our republic and trying to reverse the course of an election. The left is using their media friends to smear a duly elected president, his cabinet, and his supporters which make up half the country. If anything we should be the ones rising up to put an end to their antics because they are trying to start a war. Their rights haven’t been violated in any way but they are trying to violate our rights. It’s not the same as Vietnam at all.

1 Like
#9

Did anyone get persecuted for badmouthing the President? Apples and oranges.

1 Like
#10

The Coup is being conducted by those on the Left who, knowingly or not, are attempting to remove Trump and replace him with someone who will allow US to be Communized.

Most of them believe their cause is just and that their system and leaders would be better than DJT and our originalist Constitutional interpretation.

They are mistaken. But either way, their system, if it prevailed in America, would justify a defense to main that system.

Same as in any nation.

A Great White Shark is entitled to use it’s weapons to defend itself.

A rattlesnake. Porcupine. Skunk. Black Widow Spider. Hyena.

You may like them or you may consider them the very worst animals and pests on Earth. But God gave them the means of self defense.

What if the Coup plotters and the Vietnamese Communists TRULY believe their ideals and values and system of government is better than ours?

Should they not be allowed to protect their system?

#11

Yeah your missing the meaning of Communism :roll_eyes: where there is only one point of view and people are not free to protest against the point of view of the State or even belong to an opposing political party because there is only one dictator/political party and the Vietnamese sure don’t have the right to protest or assemble.

The coup going on in the USA by the MSM and Dems against a Constitutionally duly elected “by the people” President is in fact sedition verging on treason and only in America can they get away with it. :angry:

3 Likes
#12

I agree with EVERYTHING you said except the contention (implied) that the Communists are not entitled to defend their system.

We must oppose their system, but we cant blame them for having laws to defend that system.

If you follow sports, do you blame the Patriots for having a great defense even though you hate their team?

#13

However, using that argument, one could justify the coup against President Trump by the Leftists.

The point is that many (though not all) of the people trying to destroy Trump believe he is teh debil and wrong.

Conversely, we all believe President Trump is the greatest President since Lincoln, or even greater than that. He might be the GOAT (Greatest Of All Time).

Those who are mistaken but believe they are right should be disabused of their notion, i.e. defeated.

But should they NOT defend their beliefs?

They might say it is WE who should not defend Trump because he is wrong.

But they cant expect us to leave him defenseless as we believe he is right.

And we cant expect they will not have a defense for their system and their big shots.

#14

They don’t have a system. They are trying to destroy our system in order to create their own. They are the aggressors. They are defending nothing. It’s up to us to defend the system that our founding fathers built for us.

1 Like
#15

Should pedophiles not defend their beliefs? Your multiple reframing attempts wont detract from the basic fact that the commie governments in Vietnam, the UK, Germany and China are oppressing their people, the same way pedophiles molest kids.

2 Likes
#16

No. They don’t have the right to overthrow a constitutionally elected government.

In the case of Vietnam, which is what your thread was about, what they are doing isn’t consistent with US values or principles. For that, they should be sanctioned heavily and any US company doing business with Vietnam should look elsewhere.

1 Like
#17

They dont have a system yet. But once they do…

Yes, they are trying to destroy our system.in order to create their own. Yes, they are the aggressors.

So, let’s say that we are in Julandia and I am the President and you are the VP. and somehow the same ilk as are assailing DJT, have staged a coup and are now in JuLu, the White House equivalent.

Do they deserve to defend their regime against our patriotic forces of Liberty who would stage a counter-coup?

Why or why not?

#18

Okay, fine.

New example.

China in the Hong Kong protests.

Does Red China have any right to prevent the Freedom protests from threatening the Chinese system of government?

Or does that right to self determination cease because their system of government is bad?

And bad in whose minds?

Who is the arbiter?

#19

The argument has nothing to do with the goodness or the badness of the system being defended.

Otherwise, you justify those who wish to make America Communist or Islamic.

THEY are convinced their cause is righter than ours.

So, we cant go by which one is better.

We have to grant that every government, good, bad or indifferent, has a right to defend itself.

Just like every living thing will defend itself if possible, whether we like that person or animal or not.

#20

"Meechan says he’s not a racist, he just wanted to piss off his girlfriend."

I wonder if it worked?

:thinking: