Now, sex education in schools. It must be simple enough for a child to grasp; but too often it tends to go off on tangents; and that can be even more confusing to a child. It’s all about stepping lightly. With so much liberal input, the most depraved areas of sex are often down played & made to look normal. Small example; and I refer to Plato: Plato refers to heterosexual intercourse as “natural” and same-sex sex between women and men as “unnatural”. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A child should be taught that it is impossible for same sex couples to propagate. Just teaching the child about nature, basic biology. Is that part of sex education curriculum? If not, why not? and if not, it boils down to ulterior motives. Like I say: Teach it all, or teach nothing.
I agree that one has to take many things into consideration when one forms a sex ed curriculum. It is difficult to get it right, and it requires quite some planning.
However, it seems that we have different views on homosexuality. I would agree that one should teach the children that same sex couples cannot propagate in a sex ed class, but I would also want them to learn about the possibilities of adoption, fertility treatments and surrogacy for same-sex couples. This is a controversial debate that is not directly related to the one we are currently having, so I do not really want to dig any deeper in homosexuality here and now.
And a quick note regarding Plato (whom I have read a lot): he does say that some places, but in other places (such as in Symposion) he makes the argument that no man is more masculine than one that is the active part in a same-sex relation. This was in line with the typical ancient Greek view on sexuality: the active one in a same-sex relation is commendable, the passive one is condemnable. Plato said quite a lot of smart things, but he was also a member of a time, society and context with many strange views.
Should a child be taught that gay men schtupp each other up the ass? I mean, it’s truth, and the truth shall set you free. Yes Johnny, gay men shove their schwanstukers into colons loaded with poop. Some even shove a gerbil up the poop chute. No doubt the term abortion will also surface in sex ed class, and so, not to be left out: [Elite New York Clinic Offering Simulated Abortions for Gay Men(https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/printthread/Board/21/main/677173/type/thread)
https:// www.24hourcampfire.com /ubbthreads/ubb…---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nothing that could ever confuse a child. God in Heaven, Help Us. The inmates are now in charge of the asylum. I mean, where is the line drawn?
You are thinking rationally and scientifically. It’s perfectly normal to instruct children about what their body is and what it does. After all, we have put educational institutions in place to transfer knowledge from the knowledgeable to the new and growing minds.
Unfortunately, conservatives want to pretend like we all still live in the 1950s where everyone just bottles up their emotions and either drinks and smokes themselves to death or copes by taking Valium. They are desperate to bring back an era where the man comes home from work, drinks his hard liquor, and beats his wife and children. Fuck that. I’ll take making progress every day of the week and I’ll keep fighting for it too.
Because at six years of age learning “safe touch” means what exactly? Do you think they become empowered against Creepy Uncle Joe because they are going to stand up to an adult?
I understand your point and intent, but I think it is misguided. These are things parents should be teaching their children, not strangers. Worse, it is being forced on the parents and children without any choice. I’m not a big fan of those kind of tactics.
6 year old children should not be taught about masterbation. Sex education should be taught on an incremental basis from the end of elementary school to the end of high school. It’s unfortunate that a lot of parents don’t teach their children about sex or masterbation which dome consider sinful. This would ha6in an ideal world.
The Liberal Indoctrination Centers (schools) are interfering with parenting instead of producing educated articulate students.
Well I am of the belief that any educational programs considered compulsory that are introduced should have the consent of the parents, they are after all the tax payers and thus educators in the public school system are not the moral nor expert arbiters on what a parent’s role should be. In other words there should be a consensus reached that everyone agrees to, and this specific program is not on that level of transparency to be inclusive of having parents concerns voiced.
This is where I will disagree with you on, because there is no normalized standard view on the topic, and parents in general come from diverse back grounds that have different approaches on how they want to educate their kids on the topic of sexuality. This type of approach is problematic on many issues of Government force feeding programs to which they think one size fits all in hopes the “hive mentality” will submit to Government knows best, and I argue its not as simple as that. IMO its a flawed approach.
Who gets to decide what is correct and what is incorrect? Again this goes back to subjugating parental knowledge to the institutional knowledge of government funded educators who for the most part have a higher failure rate at implementing such policies than they do at having success that society as a whole can agree upon.
There are other ways to achieve and address this issue than instituting a controversial policy such as this that is rife with suspicion of having ulterior motives of normalizing cultural attitudes that is not supported by science. On the latter, when you consider the transgender, and gay issue, and how educators want to influence minds that are not yet developed, nor is their sexuality at such a young age is extremely controversial, not to mention suspicious, and thus parents concerns on this topic is a legitimate one should out weigh anything the government wants to try to force down the collective throat as being normal.
Lastly, my position on this as stated in the original OP, is that I am very much opposed to this curriculum lesson being forced onto children at such a young age without parents approval and just as Jim stated in an earlier post to which I agree with, is that Sex Education in the schools should be a gradual process when children are of the age when puberty starts its natural progression, anything else should be looked at and scrutinized with intense veracity.
Jim pretty much raises an excellent point here and echos my sentiment on the topic!
I too believe in progress; but there’s progress & there’s progress. Do you believe this is sane progress? Elite New York Clinic Offering Simulated Abortions for Gay Men(Elite New York Clinic Offering Simulated Abortions for Gay Men - 24hourcampfire)
https:// www.24hourcampfire.com /ubbthreads/ubb…
I grew up in a very stable home. Never ever any violence. I was given total freedom; and there were only two rules. Do your best in school, and never bring misery to our door. My childhood was idyllic. I followed the rules; and by 16 I was mature enough to enlist in the Navy. At 17 I graduated & was on my own. I had to argue with mom to get out of the house. Dad knew I was able to handle life.
I would argue that it is only natural that children learn about homosexual male sex when one covers sex in general. After all, one or two in a class of twenty will statistically come out as gay at some point. I learned about sex between man and woman, man and man and woman and woman when I went to school, and it was not as confusing as you want it to be. Facts are what belongs in schools, while faith belongs in private households and holy buildings.
By safe touch I mean that only the child itself is allowed to have their hands anywhere near their genital area.
I would not call it an empowerment. The point is based on the many terrible cases of child abuse where the child has remained silent, not telling any adults of the misdeed, because they feel guilty. Our children need to know that if the worst should happen it is never their fault, and that they can and must tell another adult.
It seems that we have different opinions on the school’s role in society. I doubt that we are going to agree on it sometime soon, but if you want to know what I feel about the “forcing” of information, you can check out my response to Mr_Manhattan.
First things first. You disagree with the argument that one can find a normalized standard view on the topic. Of course, I disagree with this as well, and I hoped that I made that clear in earlier response. I am in no way saying that there is an objective, or generally accepted, answer to this topic.
You also problematize that if there were to be such a normalized standard (which again, I do not believe), it would be hard to see who should decide what this standard is. I too find this problematic, and what I tried to say in my earlier response was that sure, if there are some specific members of the society that we know holds all the answers to our problems, that would be great. But, of course, there are no such persons, and therefore this position is mute.
In the absence of such all-knowing creatures, how should we then decide which pieces of information should be compulsory for all pupils? Note that I will begin by talking about information in general, before moving on to the more specific piece of information that is sexual education. What do we want all of our children to learn through their schooling? It is in itself a difficult question, but I think most of us will agree that it should be pieces of information that contribute in preparing them for living adult lives, as informed citizens with some kind of social and cultural competency. Every class in history, math, social sciences etc. serves as a small step towards a goal like the one I just described. The pieces of information should not only prepare the pupils for adulthood, but should of course also be factual, rational and as objective as possible. Schools have everything to do with giving children the tools they need to be able to make it and make informed decisions as adults, not making these decisions for them. Factuality, rationality and objectivity is therefore essential.
This is easy when picking out curriculum within mathematics and natural sciences, where it is very little debate amongst scientists on what the answers, at least on the more elementary levels. It gets a little bit more difficult when approaching subjects such as history, where one’s understanding of history will be colored by which segments of history one picks out. To take an example from my own country’s history and the history lessons I got as a child: One gets a different understanding of the Vikings if you only focus on them as great shipbuilders than if you also learn about their raping and pillaging.
What we are discussing is maybe the most difficult type of subject to approach of them all, since sexual education is closely connected to morality and cultural norms. As you point out, parents in general do come from diverse backgrounds, and often disagree on how this topic should be handled. How do we then get out of this tricky situation? Your suggested answer is having a consensus reached on how to treat the matter. I think that is a pretty good answer. As a society, as parents, it is only natural that we would like to agree on what our children learn about sexuality. But this consensus has to build on factuality, rationality and objectivity. We both agree that there is no normalized standard surrounding the morality of sexuality or masturbation, but there is a scientific normalized standard behind the descriptive qualities of sexuality. For example, we know that masturbation is common, and we know that it is not dangerous (at least not physically dangerous, I know that those of us who hold certain religious views would protest how dangerous it is for our character and afterlives). We also know that different moral and religious views have different things to say about the legality of masturbation, and although I would not press for including this in sexual education, that is something a parental consensus maybe would want in a sex ed class.
Besides being a fan of factual, rational and objective information, I am a fan of democratic principles. If parents disagree with school curriculum, they most certainly should try to affect it. Through meetings with the school, putting pressure on your school district or your elected officials. I do, however, have serious problems with the possibility of parents opting their children out of the curriculum they do not agree with. If a part of the curriculum is not considered compulsory, it should not be in the curriculum at all. And as I have argued, I do think sex ed should be compulsory. It is information that is important in a day and age where more and more children and teenagers are getting much of their conception of a natural body and sex from pornography.
I am not arguing that the pupils should be met with a teacher that tries to inspire or encourage them into masturbating, having sex, becoming homosexuals or changing their sex. But as long as masturbation, sex and different sexual orientations is something that exists, it is something our children are served in getting information about. And again, I mean factual, rational and objective information, not incitements for what is good and what is wrong. Just getting the facts on the table, so that one has all the information one needs in order to take a standpoint. “This is what masturbation is, this is what different people/religions/cultures have to say about it, this is how they argue for their positions”. It is first then, when one has all of the relevant information relevant on a topic, one can make an informed decision, if not one is just blindly following convention.
It seems like you presuppose that sex-ed classes will try to influence non-developed minds, and sure, they can do. I am not familiar to the specific curriculum in British sex-ed classes, so I cannot comment on that in particular. In general, however, I do not advocate sex-ed classes based on anything other than objective facts. If the teacher serves the children with something else than that, I would protest. But if the point is that certain parents’ views on morality contradict facts on sexuality, I will be on the school’s side in their debate.
Regarding the question of when the children should be thought what , I agree that it should be a gradual process. I think a lot of sex ed can be saved until puberty. Still, almost all children will somehow be met with pornography, more and more young children are sending nude pictures under the pressure of older kids and some awfully young children are so unhappy with their bodies that they want genital surgery. Due to social media and the age of the Internet, our children’s first meeting with the hypersexual world we live in is happening earlier than before. They should have at least some basic information about it all, so that they better can cope with it all. I commend stepping lightly when we talk about ‘child’ and ‘sex’ in the same sentence. But I think avoiding the topic is a disservice to our children, because they are going to meet the world of sexuality regardless of how we act. The least we can do is to make the shock, blow and confusion in and followed by this meeting as painless as possible.
I can see that you’re early childhood education has indoctrinated you sufficiently.
Here you are using the word “natural” in the same sentence as homosexual male sex. Man on man buttsex isn’t natural. It’s degenerate.
Sex is for one thing. Procreation and the survival of the species. You can’t procreate through buttsex.
I’m sorry that the leftist globohomo agenda broke your mind at such a young age. Most people here don’t want that happening to any other kids. This might explain why the younger generation is having the least amount of sex in history and their suicide rate is off the charts.
I just fail to see a single argument against the permissibility of homosexuality. Care to enlighten me?
Of course it’s natural, it’s just not normal. It has existed throughout human history and even exists within the animal kingdom.
Who is saying it isn’t permissible? If two men want to slam each other up the ass, that’s their business. It doesn’t make it natural and it doesn’t mean it should be taught to children.
Abnormalities and anomalies occur everywhere. That doesn’t mean they all should be taught to children at an early developmental stage when normalcy should be the focus.
Regarding how natural it is, I support @montecresto1’s answer. Even if it had not been natural (though I mean it is), why does it matter? Human beings always try to conquer and surpass what is natural.
What matters is that there are homosexuals, so we should learn about homosexuality to understand them and homosexuality as a concept! And there are children going to school that are going to find out that they are homosexual, so they are also served with knowledge on the topic!
This is going off topic however. If you’re keen on discussing it further, you could start a new thread. 
Thank you for being an outstanding example of why people should homeschool their children.
Your cultural marxist advocacy has been central to destroying the family and ruining the educational system. We are talking about teaching abnormal sexual intercourse to children as young as six. Their minds aren’t sufficiently mature or developed enough to understand the nuances of what is being taught to them.
Here’s the thing, you got brainwashed at a young age and now you are simply regurgitating the standard talking points without any independent thought. You can’t see any counter arguments or counterpoints because you have been indoctrinated to only look at things from one perspective.
Tell me this, do you think having intact families is important? Or do you think that the ability of two men to have buttsex is paramount and superior to an intact and normal family?
I read your reply to @Dr_Manhattan.
You are incorrect, my stance will this will never change.
Why do you think children don’t tell adults? Mostly because they’ve been told not to by direct threat or manipulation. The guilt is about keeping the secret, especially if it is a family member. Teaching safe touching is NOT going to change what a molester does and who they target.
As well, this could backfire and a child will get it into their head to make a false accusation for attention.
IMO, better results would come from educating the parents on signs of abuse, how to speak with their children and how to earn the child’s trust. If something does happen the child needs to know the parent will absolutely do the right thing.
About 90% of children who are victims of abuse know their abuser.
Only 10% of sexually abused children are abused by a stranger.
Approximately 30% of children who are sexually abused are abused by family members.
The younger the victim, the more likely it is that the abuser is a family member. Of those molesting a child under six, 50% were family members. Family members also accounted for 23% of those abusing children ages 12 to 17.
About 60% of children who are sexually abused are abused by the people the family trusts